The Grass Is Not Always Greener: A Look at National Health Care Systems Around the World

Cato Institute ^ | March 18, 2008 | Michael D. Tanner

[AmishDude]

Which country are you from? For a small country, nationalized health care won’t make as much of a difference.

[darkside321]

Why do people from ALL over the world come to the U. S. for their operations?

---

for the same reason they go to other countries where they would get the best treatment (if they can afford it) for
their problem. i mean money rules the world. if you can spend hundrets of thousand dollars for a simple operation you will never have a problem in this world. No matter where you live because you can allways go to a places where
you (only you because you pay it) will get the best “care” available. But since the most people living in our countries
don´t have this luck i guess “we” should find a system which
allso benefits most of them and not only the “upper” 10.000 because they will get it anyway even without any health care system.

[Bhoy]

Thanks for post. Keeper.... and cheer up! ... you may be on a waiting list but you’ll be INSURED!

[Conservative Coulter Fan]

You are a just being downright honest, and you clearly didn’t read the above information provided, but instead start posting on the thread. You remind me of the head of the British Conservative Party, a man that believes the government should “subsidize” fresh fruits and veggies and provide all citizens with memberships to gyms, but rather than questioning your “conservatism” (if you have any, the WHO report ranks the United States number one in the world in responsiveness to patients’ needs in choice of provider, dignity, autonomy, timely care, and confidentiality. America is clearly number one in the most important health care category - treatment and survival of diseases, “Whether the disease is cancer, pneumonia, heart disease, or AIDS, the chances of a patient surviving are far higher in the United States than in other countries.” And America clearly not only has more access to medical technology, we possess more medical equipment. Get over your misguided sense of pride and jealousy of America.

[Conservative Coulter Fan]

I’m heavily leaning towards....Canada...they have a great deal of jealousy when it comes to our health care system. Or he’s British.

[TimSkalaBim]

i have yet to read a somehow “ballanced” observation.

This isn't "ballance", just the fact.

Up to 20,000 people have died needlessly early after being denied cancer drugs on the NHS, it was revealed yesterday. Read more

You should not be seeking "ballance", but truth.

[Conservative Coulter Fan]

Simple, people come from the “single payer” countries because of the long waiting lists, poor access to care, outdated facilities, and outdated medical equipment. America is the place to be if you have any type of disease or cancer.

[darkside321]

Which country are you from? For a small country, nationalized health care won’t make as much of a difference.

---

Yeah its a small country (austria). But beside the “real numbers”
i think this doesn´t make any difference as long as you only count in %. Of course “we” will have much lesser numbers because of the population size but finally there is no difference. 5% uninsured will mean that 5 people out of one hundret are not insured. No matter if you have 10.000.000
100.000.000 or even 1000.000.000 million people living in your country. the principle stays the same.

[Conservative Coulter Fan]

Okay, let’s try a really important question: Are you a conservative? If so, what are ideals, position on issues, and why did you join a grassroots conservative forum in based in the U.S.?

[darkside321]

Okay, let’s try a really important question: Are you a conservative? If so, what are ideals, position on issues, and why did you join a grassroots conservative forum in based in the U.S.?

---

Well first I don´t live in the US (been born there so i´m a US citizen too but have been too young to remeber how live was back then). But i visit the us sometimes because i like
it and have friends there. So i definitely don´t “qualify” for a conservative or a liberal in us terms.
But i like talking to people on this message board to somethimes share the same oppinion (depends on the topic) and sometimes just listen to totally different kind of views here on FR which i can not find in most of “europe”.
So to summ it up i´m allways interessted in having a discussion and to hear different points of view.
Thats all.
greetings

[VOA]

“
Critics of the U.S. health care system frequently point to other countries
as models for reform.
“

But they’ll never move to those workers’ paradises.
Instead they stay here and try to make everyone else’s live h-ll.

[Conservative Coulter Fan]

Fair enough, but I am still interested in knowing what you believe in exactly..

[GailA]

The African American doctor of 30 years I protested TURN COAT JOHN TANNER, bribed by a NATO job, said he’d retire..0 may get to the point of having to CONSCRIPT the retired doctors, or import Non-English speaking ones or both.

AIN’T JUST GRANNY & GRAMPS GETTING WHACK, MILITARY IS TOO.

KEEP THE CALLS UP! DC OFFICE LOCAL OFFICE

Hold your own street protest in front of your reps local offices. Or busy street corners. Try and get the local media to cover it. Hammer the Medicare/SS issue, nothing like mad grannies and gramps.

This is from a 2007 contact list of congressional aides. Some might not be there any longer, but worth a try. The ones on the one post are senate aides, a few have bounced back, it’s worth the effort to clog up their email system along with the phones, and 1/3rd of these senators are up for re-election.

Mail must be inspected for anthrax takes 2 weeks, so if you snail mail send a post card

Contact congressional aides.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1857768/posts
U.S. Senate switchboard: (202) 224-3121
U.S. House switchboard: (202) 225-3121
White House comments: (202) 456-1111
Find your House Rep.: http://www.house.gov/writerep
Find your US Senators: http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm
Toll free to the US Senate:
1-800-882-2005. (Spanish number)
1-800-417-7666. (English number)
Courtesy of a pro-amnesty group, no less!!

Defeat Obamacare call list: List now contains the new MAYBES culled from FR posts. Be sure to call KNOWN RINOS too.THEY ARE ANSWERING THEIR LOCAL NUMBERS

Here is one of the ones Rush gave out on the radio that I’m calling. So far it’s been busy but I’m going to burn it up till I get to tell my congress critter to vote NO!
Join me?..... 1-877-762-8762

CODE RED Contact list http://www.nrcc.org/CodeRed/targets/
Remember they are all being offered BRIBES for their votes. Ask them how much their bribe price is.

The National Republican Congressional Committee has published a target list on health care. In addition to continuing to contact the five Tennessee Democrat Congressmen, you can go http://www.votervoice.net/link/clickthrough/ext/94697.aspx to contact some of these targets. Much of the talk following Obama’s announcement has focused on how to defeat this second bill through reconciliation, but that is misleading because the first step to defeating Obamacare is not by concentrating on defeating the “fixer” bill but by defeating the Senate bill in the House when it goes to the floor for an up-or-down vote on Sunday March 21st.

Good idea from the bloggers at Hillbuzz:

http://hillbuzz.org/2010/03/17/action-items-march-17th-2010/
They offer specifics and links on how to put pressure on Dem DONORS, who have private numbers for legislators who may have taken their phones off the hook.

Congress may not want to hear from us, but they’ll listen to the money men.
Call them and fax them them instead of telling us you don’t trust them.

www.faxzero.com for two free faxes a day.
www.gotfreefax.com for another 2 free faxes per day.
Congressional Dems on Twitter
http://www.arrghpaine.com/congressional-dems-on-twitter

RUSH says to pressure these 2

Charles Wilson, Ohio Toll Free Number 888-706-1833 DC (202) 225-5705 fx: (202) 225-5907, Bridgeport, (740) 633-5705 fx: (740) 633-5727, Canfield, (330) 533-7250 fx: (330) 533-7136 Marietta, : (740) 376-0868 fx: (740) 376-0886 Ironton, (740) 533-9423 fx: (740) 533-9359 Wellsville, 330) 532-3740 Canfield, here is the zip code 44406.
Joe Cao DC (202) 225-6636 Fax: (202) 225-1988, NO (504) 483-2325 Fax: (504) 483-7944

NEW FLIPPERS

Rep. Bart Gordon TN (202) 225-4231 Fax: (202) 225-6887 Murfreesboro, TN 37130 GETS A NASA JOB for his vote
(615) 896-1986 Cookeville (931) 528-5907 Gallatin, (615) 451-5174
Mark Schauer D.C. (202) 225-6276 Fax: (202) 225-6281 Jackson, MI (517) 780-9075
Fax: (517) 780-9081 Toll-Free: (877) 737-6407
Christopher Carney (202) 225-3731 (570) 585-9988 PA 10th District
Dennis Kucinish, Lakewood 216)228-8850, Fax (216)228-6465,
Parma. 440)845-2707, Fax (440)845-2743, DC (202)225-5871
Dennis Cardoza DC (202) 225-6131, Fax: 225-0819, 800-356-6424, Merced, (209) 383-4455 Fax: 726-1065 Modesto 209) 527-1914 Fax: 527-5748 Modesto, (209) 527-1914
Fax: 527-5748
Jim Costa Fresno 559-495-1620, Fax:559-495-1027, Bakersfeld, 661-869-1620 Fax: 661-869-1027 DC Phone:202-225-3341 Fax: 202-225-9308 Fax (202)225-5745
James Oberstar (202) 225-6211, Duluth (218) 727-7474, Chisholm (218) 254-5761, Brainerd (218) 828-4400, North Branch, (651) 277-1234
Gabrielle Giffords (202) 225-2542 (520) 881-3588 AZ 8th District
John Boccieri (D), Ohio Voted Yes on Stupak, NO on Health Care.Contact info - DC office (202) 225-3876 - Fax - (202) 225-3059 (330) 489-4414, Local Fax - (330) 489-4448
Betsy Markey DC 202.225.4676, fx. 202.225.5870, Ft. Collins, 970.221.7110fx 970.221.7240, Greeley, 970.351.6007 fx 970.351.6068, Lamar, 719.931.4003
fx 719.931.4005, Sterling, 970.522.0203 fx 970.522.1783
Alan Boyd FL DC 202) 225-5235, (202) 225-5615 Fax Tallahassee (850) 561-3979
(850) 681-2902 Fax Panama City (850) 785-0812 (850) 763-3764 Fax

S. Kosmos FL DC (202) 225-2706 Fax: (202) 226-6299, Port Orange, FL 32129
Phone: (386) 756-9798 Fax: (386) 756-9903 Orlando, FL 32826
Phone: (407)-208-1106 Fax: (407)-208-1108
Brad Ellsworth IN Evansville (812) 465-6484 fx: (812) 422-4761 Terre Haute (812) 232-0523 fx: (812) 232-0526 DC ph: (202) 225-4636 Toll Free: (866) 567-0227
fx: (202) 225-3284
John Tanner (202) 225-4714, Union City, (731) 885-7070, Jackson Phone: (731) 423-4848, Millington (901) 873-5690 TN (RETIREING, His going away present to the USA, gets a NATO JOB for vote.
Thinks you are harassing him! Rep. John Garamendi’s (CA-10) (202) 225-1880
Fax: (202) 225-5914 Walnut Creek, (925) 932-8899 fax: (925) 932-8159 Antioch (925) 757-7187 Fax: (925) 757-7056 Fairfield, Phone: (707) 438-1822 Fax: (707) 438-0523
Bill Owens (202) 225-4611 (315) 782-3150 NY 23rd District
Tim Bishop (202) 225-3826 (631) 696-6500 NY 1st District

MOVED TO UNDECIDED
rec’d from NCTeaParty.com — Despite earlier assurances that he was a NO on health care reform and would not change his mind, Rep. Heath Shuler, NC 11, is now undecided.
Rep. Heath Shuler, North Carolina 11th http://shuler.house.gov/ DC Office Number: (202) 225-6401, DC Fax Number: (202) 226-6422 Local Office Number: (828) 252-1651, Local Fax Number: (828) 252-8734 Chief of Staff: Hayden Rogers email: hayden.rogers@mail.house.gov
Lincoln Davis 202.225.6831Fax: 202.226.5172 Columbia Office 931.490.8675
Jamestown 931.879.2361 Fax: 931.879.2389 McMinnville, 931.473.7251 Fax: 931.473.7259
.............................................

Steve Cohen TN, DC (202) 225-3265 Fax: (202) 225-5663, Memphis, TN, 901) 544-4131 Fax: (901) 544-4329
Harry Mitchell (202) 225-2190 (480) 946-2411 AZ 5th District
Ann Kirkpatrick (202) 225-2315 (928) 226-6914 AZ 1st District
Jerry McNerney (202) 225-1947 925-833-0643 CA 11th District
John Salazar 202-225-4761 970-245-7107 CO 3rd District
Jim Himes (202) 225-5541 (866) 453-0028 CT 4th District
Alan Grayson (202) 225-2176 (407) 841-1757 FL 8th District
Bill Foster (202) 225-2976 630-406-1114 IL 14th District
Baron Hill 202 225 5315 812 288 3999 IN 9th District
Gary Peters (202) 225-5802 (248) 273-4227 MI 9th District
Dina Titus (202) 225-3252 702-256-DINA (3462) NV 3rd District
Carol Shea-Porter (202) 225-5456 (603) 743-4813 NH 1st District
John Hall (202) 225-5441 (845) 225-3641 x49371 NY 19th District
Dan Maffei (202) 225-3701 (315) 423-5657 NY 25th District
Earl Pomeroy (202) 225-2611 (701) 224-0355 ND At-Large District
Steven Driehaus (202) 225-2216 (513) 684-2723 OH 1st District
Mary Jo Kilroy (202) 225-2015 (614) 294-2196 OH 15th District
Kathy Dahlkemper (202) 225-5406 (814) 456-2038 PA 3rd District
Patrick Murphy (202) 225-4276 (215) 826-1963 PA 8th District
Paul Kanjorski (202) 225-6511 (570) 825-2200 PA 11th District
John Spratt (202) 225-5501 (803)327-1114 SC 5th District
Tom Perriello (202) 225-4711 (276) 656-2291 VA 5th District
Alan Mollohan (202) 225-4172 (304) 623-4422 WVA 1st District
Nick Rahall (202) 225-3452 (304) 252-5000 WVA 3rd District
Steve Kagen (202) 225-5665 (920) 437-1954 WI 8th District
Bart Stupak (202) 225 4735 MI (MAYBE)
Brian Baird (202) 225-3536, Vancouver, (360) 695-6292. Olympia, (360) 352-9768, (MAYBE)
senator mark begich (202) 224-3004 toll free. (877) 501 - 6275 just became a MAYBE
Alan Mollohan (202) 225-4172 (304) 623-4422 WVA 1st District
Nick Rahall (202) 225-3452 (304) 252-5000 WVA 3rd District
Steve Kagen (202) 225-5665 (920) 437-1954 WI 8th District
Bart Stupak (202) 225 4735 MI (MAYBE)
Brian Baird (202) 225-3536, Vancouver, (360) 695-6292. Olympia, (360) 352-9768, (MAYBE)
senator mark begich (202) 224-3004 toll free. (877) 501 - 6275 just became a MAYBE

NEW NO’s

Zach Space (202) 225-6265 (330) 364-4300 OH 18th District
Jason Altmire 202-225-2565, Aliquippa, 724-378-0928, Natrona Heights, 724-226-1304 (NO)
Michael A. Arcuri (NY-24) NO
Harry Teague NM NO
James Matheson Toll-Free Number 1 (877) 677-9743 (202) 225-3011Mike Arcuri (202)225-3665 (315)793-8146 NY 24th District

And here are toll-free numbers we can use to call any Senators or Reps.

At the first number below you must wait through a tape recording urging you to tell your Rep or Senator to vote “yes” for the health care bill. Just hang on and when the recording is over, you will get the Capitol operator. Just ask for your Rep or Senator’s office. Then you will either talk to an aid or have the chance to leave a message for him/her to vote NO on the health care bill.

When you use the second number and the Capitol operator comes on, just ask for your Rep or Senator’s office. Every time I use this number I get the Rep or Senator’s answer machine, so it may be set up that way all the time...to go to their answer machine. Either way you can leave a message to vote NO on the health care bill!

We need to use these toll free numbers that have been set up for the health care/ BO supporters and illegals to use! After all they are FREE!

1-866-220-0044, 1-866-338-1015, 877-851-6437, 877-210-5351

[John-Irish]

Bravo! Well researched, well written article. And if it weren’t for the American health care system for the rest of the world to come to in it’s need, the world would be a very unhealthy place.

[John-Irish]

My daughter-in-law is from Canada. She has told my wife and I repeatedly that socialized medicine is a nightmare. At Christmas time her mother and step-father(American born) came for a visit. At one point after dinner “Heather’’ proclaimed her love of her ‘’wonderful free Canadian health-care system’’.(much to the consternation of her daughter) I asked, “Well, everything has to be paid for. How do you pay for this ‘’free’’ health care’’? Without waiting for her to answer my daughter-in-law said “In high taxes, that’s how’’. With that her mothers glowing assessment of Canadas health-care system dropped a bit. I then asked Heather, “Can you change providers’’? This was met with a puzzled look on Heathers face until her daughter(Pam) said’’ He means can you change from the people providing the health-care’’. “No’’, said Heather. ‘’Unless you want to go to the private clinic’’(that means if you have enough money to do so.) And finally I asked, “And when your husband needed (open-heart) surgery he...’’ “Came here’’, chimed in my daughter-in-law. Needless to say the conversation moved on from the subject of ‘’free Canadian health-care’’.

[darkside321]

Hate to break it to you. But “socialized” health care
may be a nightmare for someone who has a decent private insurance. (bevore you get me wrong i have a private one and enjoy the benfits from having this “and i live in a country which has so called “socialized health care”).
But for someone who may could not afford any kind of
generall healthh care at all it´s definitelly an improvement.
The difference here is if you work you will have an insurance
no matter what you finally earn. But fact is you and your kids (especially the kids “they are the only ones
“we” would really protect and where we would really use tax money
to help them if their parrents turn out as total losers.
But for the rest. You may have a low job but you can be shure that you are able to get any kind of pills or medicine
available and given to you if it´s nessersary “for free” if you can´t afford it with your pay check. Do you will get the same treatment like me? (Well just no! i get “better” treatment because i pay more. Fair? NO! but this is how live is. So socialized medicine does not mean we all pay the same or even share the same system or more important are treatened equal? (because believe me it´s not this way).
But at least it ensuhres that every one has some kind of acess (even it´s not serious) to a fair share of medical treatment.

[BunnySlippers]

BUMP

[AmishDude]

There are economies of scale. You have about 8.5 million people. This is less than the number of customers of a single insurer in the US (Kaiser Permanente).

Also, medical innovations are not developed in Austria. The rest of the world relies on the US to do it and it isn’t cheap. Like a high-tech product, it doesn’t even get developed without being tested and sold at a high price to a few users. Eventually the price goes down.

And let me tell you, new drug development is expensive.

[darkside321]

Hey you really cared to look at the population numbers!
And did some research! I´m really very impressed.
So bump for a later read! (because “we” have 01:40 am here and
today i´m really drunk ;-)
I will answer you tommorow.
Have a nice day and please excuse a drunk european “cousin” ;-)

[John-Irish]

Darkside, you’ve been getting your tail kicked here on this issue. Quit while you’re ahead. I’ve lived all my life in America and have NEVER been without health coverage, no matter how much I earned. And no one in America has ever been refused treatment. Don’t believe me? Ask Mexicans. America is their health-care provider. I’ve been in a union and non-union and have had and have employer provided health care of which I pay a per centage. There is no better health care system in all the world like Americas. Deal with it.