Skip to comments.Elsberry residents troubled by proposed weapons ordinance(MO)
Posted on 03/17/2010 7:09:47 AM PDT by marktwain
"I'm absolutely glad that you're here. I want to hear your input, but I'm not going to just have people yelling out," said Mayor Carla Potts at the March Elsberry Board of Alderman meeting on Tuesday, March 9, 2010.
Elsberry residents were not shy about voicing their dissatisfaction with the proposed weapons ordinance. Not every citizen waited to address the board from the podium, interrupting the aldermen throughout the meeting.
Several members of the audience expressed their displeasure with the board and believed the proposed weapons ordinance would impede their ability to protect themselves and their families.
"First of all, I'm the young lady that created this mess," said Amanda Strauser, "and I am sorry that I abided by the law. Had I known that it was going to create this much tension between officers, fellow citizens and the board, I think I would have just chosen to leave my weapon in the vehicle and take the chance of someone attacking me."
Strauser entered a local business with a loaded handgun, which brought about the request for the proposed ordinance in the February board meeting. She stated that she had not broken any laws. "I am sorry if me displaying a firearm to keep from breaking a CCW law concerns someone. I believe the concerns should have been addressed, but they were not addressed appropriately."
Strauser stated she had the handgun on her because her life was threatened by a local man. She said he had not broken the law yet, but if she "waited around" he would attack her.
"This isn't about power, this is about protection," said Strauser. She stated that she did not enter the business to create chaos or draw attention to herself. Several residents voiced their belief that the proposed ordinance would violate their constitutional rights.
"The ordinance is constitutional," explained City Attorney Robert Guinness. "It is not unique. It is not going beyond what other cities have." He stated that the majority of the ordinance is what is required by state statute regarding conceal carry. It would bring the Elsberry weapon code into compliance with state statute. "The first seven pages are actually protection for those people who have a conceal carry endorsement."
"There is a provision, as requested by the board last time, to regulate the open carrying of firearms in the city," stated Guinness. He elaborated, saying that it contained exemptions to the ban on open carry, such as being on your own property, on the property of someone who gave you permission to be there and hunting areas. "It only applies to weapons, lethal weapons, that are on your person and immediately ready for lethal use."
He suggested to the aldermen that they get input from residents, particularly business owners, before adopting the ordinance. He stressed, once again, that the ordinance was constitutional.
Alderman Bob Copeland moved to table the weapons ordinance until the Supreme Court decided if the Second Amendment right applies to states. (Currently, before the U.S. Supreme Court is the case McDonald v. Chicago. The outcome of this case could determine whether Second Amendment rights go beyond federal property and can be applied to the states and local governments.) Intervening, Guinness recommended that they pass an ordinance to bring the Elsberry code up-to-date with state statutes. Copeland withdrew his motion and moved to have Guinness redraft the ordinance to include all sections, except for the open carry subsection. The issue passed 3-2.
"I want to thank everybody for coming tonight," said Matt McBride, owner of Liberty Arms of Missouri. "I appreciate everyone who is in support of and against the ordinance." He asked Guinness to clarify the subsection to be removed from the first draft of the ordinance and wanted to make sure that the next draft would only address conceal and carry. He also told audience members if they had any questions to contact him.
"If you're a business owner, and you don't want a weapon (in your business) you have to put a sign up," said Alderman Doneta Gladney. She stated she did not want to go into more paperwork and meetings if the problem could be resolved with putting up a sign in the businesses. Mayor Potts said that they should not have to create an ordinance every time there was a problem in the town.
In other matters, the dates of bond issue presentations, regarding the upgrades of the sewer system, pipes and water tower, were announced. They will be held on March 25 at 1 p.m. and March 31 at 7 p.m. at the Elsberry City Hall. "You need to be there and hear what's going on," said Mayor Potts.
I’m in favor of private residences and businesses posting this type of sign: THIS IS A FIREARMS FREE ZONE. NO FIREARMS ALLOWED. NOTE TO ALL BAD GUYS: WE HAVE WATER BALLOONS, AND WE’RE NOT AFRAID TO USE THEM!
I am consistently amused by those who do not seek to read and understand the constitution. Our American rights are God given, not man given. Our founders knew that. We should know that, also.
Make your own Gun Free Zone
“It should be entirely up to the establishment if they want to keep firearms out of their place. They should simply be required to post their position on a large sign at each entrance,”
So any “establishment” that wishes to rescind my rights of speech, religion, trial by jury, etc has a perfect RIGHT to do so?? All it has to do is post a sign: TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN—YOU HAVE NO RIGHTS HERE UNLESS I SAY SO!! That’s what the Black Panthers did at a Philly polling place a couple of years ago.
That's not the wording I posted, is it?
SEVEN PAGES? We don't need your steenkin seven pages! We already have this:
If it is private property, then functionally,"yes". Within reason, that is exactly what they should be able to do. If you do not wish to abide by the rules that they have set for their private business, then you have the option to take your business some place else. At that point, nobody's rights have been infringed and every one, except the busy body nanny staters should be happy.
In MO, cities/counties etc have the option of banning open carry outright-many do, many don’t-so open carry is a mish-mash of yes/no and you, the citizen have to know which jurisdiction you are in and what it’s rules are. All completely w/in the MO code.
Concealed carry is permitted w/endsorsement (excepting certain premises-courts etc) unless restricted by the property owner/manager via an 11x14 sign prominently posted with black letters (although the red cirlce over a firearms is probably enforceable as well).
Violating such signage is not a crime, rather a citation if LEOs are called and you have refuesd to leave (with caveats).
(If carrying concealed, how would anyone know?; but of course honor other’s rights and the law; let them know and shop elsewhere!)
For details, go to mo.gov and search for “concealed weapons”.
MO CCW trainer/NRA R&P Instructor etc..
“Within reason, that is exactly what they should be able to do.”
Opinions vary as to what is “within reason” and why or why not. That’s usually where the major problems lie in these situations.
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