Posted on 10/12/2009 7:09:21 AM PDT by re_tail20
Damn !
I understand your concern.
I believe the problem rests with the design concept as opposed to faulty manufacturing and/or sloppy quality control.
The basic design approach is to manufacture a high technology weapon with lightweight components manufactured to work together with tight mechanical tolerances.
The jamming and other reported failures are rooted in the decision to design a lightweight weapon with tight mechanical tolerances.
Tight mechanical tolerances become a problem when the inevitable buildup of dust, dirt, powder and cartridge residue occurs and the interface of working components is altered.
The lightweight concept becomes a problem when high rates of fire cause heat build up affecting tolerances. Heavier constructed weapons with a greater mass in the barrel, receiver, etc. can simply absorb and disperse more heat than the lighter weight US designs.
It is a straw man argument when some people claim the problem is faulty maintenance and lubrication by the combat troops. These are men who fire their weapons more in a year than most civilians will do in a lifetime. They are trained to the highest degree and know their own life and the lives of their buddies depends on the proper care of their weapons. If they haven’t cleaned the weapon in a while it is because they are in extended combat.
A wepon design that does not stand up to the rigours of extended combat is a man-killer no matter how high-Tech or how well manufactuured.
I'm an AK guy. When I bought my first AR, I looked at the instruction manual and the list of Do Not's for it and wondered what kind of candy-ass weapon I'd purchased.
Good post. It's easy to bash the M16 / M4, but let's face it: Over the last fifty years, our guys have killed hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of godless communists and terrorists with them.
The real problem is that our primary weapon is a sixty year old design. For the price of ONE high-speed fancy fighter jet, we could have a truly REVOLUTIONARY weapon - something like a manpack railgun or true combat laser.
The North Vietnamese used to discourage our use of captured SKS and AK rifles by leaving a nasty little surprise in their abandoned ammunition supplies... 7.62x39 cartridges packed with high explosives, but externally identical to the rest of the ammunition.
‘...its called the AK-47.’
Yep.
Unbelieveable! We need names of these scumbags that said
that even with 863 minor stoppages—termed “class one” stoppages which require 10 seconds or less to clear and “class two” stoppages which require more than ten seconds to clear—the M4 functioned well, with over 98 percent of the 60,000 total rounds firing without a problem.
Especially when the other rifle had 233!!!!!
An AK variant is not significantly more reliable then an M16 variant. Yes DI does port hot gases back into the chamber while a piston system does not. A piston system however introduces a number of moving parts that will make a rifle inoperable if one of them breaks. DI rifle are also generally more accurate then piston type rifles.
I also have the question as to wwhere our air power was.
Our doctirne is combined power and it down’t seem to have been effective.
Maybe it’s time to bring out the napalm again.
The mention of the “grease gun” brought me back to my K war days with that wire stock and one hell of a kick fired not from the shoulder but cradled in your gut firmly grasping the clip and fired left to right to sideways. You had to have good stomach muscles, because the thing would climb fired from the shoulder and in a few secs the rounds in the clip were expended. It was a good close support attack/defence weapon but not meant for field of fire use like a Thompson or a 30 cal air cooled which would keep their heads down. My M2 carbine always jammed when the selector switch was on automatic. But it was deadly and accurate in semi mode. Also had good results with the M1.
I obtained a level of accuracy with the grease gun that allowed me to put all the rounds from a magazine into the black at 30 yards. It takes some training to so this so as to master the climb of the weapon. I used this skill to impress newly minted tankers on the effectiveness of the weapon. None of them ever achieved that level of skill however, since they couldn’t practice enough with it.
My assigned weapon was the M2 Carbine. At the time I was then 5’10+” 145 lbs of rompin stompin airborne hell. The few “burp guns” were usually assigned to deuce and half and 3/4 ton vehicles. They were also used in combat patrol probes. I couldn’t control that damm thing except use it as a broom as in a sweeping action which was effective . I might have done better if it was assigned to me but thats (your weapon use) pretty good shootin.
yes, the main problem with the tin can gun was that it was very hard to control and required much practice. If it is any consolation I was 5’8” and weighted 147:) . With trigger manipulation you could get off single shots. I was able to hit man sized targets 10 out of 10 with it using single shots at 100 yards.
M4/M4A1 Carbine Reliability Issues: Why They Occur, and Why They’re Our Fault!
http://www.defensereview.com/m4m4a1-carbine-reliability-issues-why-they-occur-and-why-theyre-our-fault/
M4/M4A1 Carbine Reliability Issues Part II: Diagnosing the root cause.
http://www.defensereview.com/m4m4a1-carbine-reliability-issues-part-ii-diagnosing-the-root-cause/
Ruger SR-556 Gas Piston/Op-Rod AR Carbine User Feedback: Case Extraction Problem and Solution.
http://www.defensereview.com/ruger-sr-556-gas-pistonop-rod-ar-carbine-user-feedback-case-extraction-problem-and-solution/
Personally, I kind of like FALs:
The Tale of Ol' Dirty. A Texas Legend.
http://ronocracy.blogspot.com/2007/02/ol-dirty-texas-legend.html
(Update: over 15,000 rnds fired w/o cleaning)
http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=68486
Ol' Dirty
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3pFWU54skA
These are men who fire their weapons more in a year than most civilians will do in a lifetime. They are trained to the highest degree and know their own life and the lives of their buddies depends on the proper care of their weapons.
If they haven’t cleaned the weapon in a while it is because they are in extended combat. A weapon design that does not stand up to the rigours of extended combat is a man-killer no matter how high-Tech or how well manufactuured.
I agree with you 100% on that score! It isn't always possible to observe the niceties of proper weapons maintenance while one is focused on trying to avoid getting his butt shot off.
ABSOLUTELY!!!
I cannot contain my anger when I read year in and year out that bogus canard that our experienced, front line combat troops don't properly maintain their weapons.
These guys aren't newbies plinking with scary looking black plastic clones on a Saturday afternoon at the indoor range. These are men who live and die by their skill with firearms - they know what they are doing and they know how to clean and maintain their weapons. If combat troops repeatedly say there is a problem with weapon reliability you can bet the farm they are right.
You cannot anticipate combat situations, and the enemy doesn't take Time Out Chits so you can clean a weapon that just isn't up to the task. There is no reason other than politics and greed that our troops do not have a better weapon.
(geting off soap box now)
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