Posted on 09/27/2009 2:04:48 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
I don't believe you have any IDers on your list. I have never seen one here.
But Creationists and IDers DISAGREE on the main points!
I didn’t say I was in an engineering physics program, but that I took engineering physics classes. They were physics classes designed for engineering majors, that were heavily calculus-based, instead of the more simplified physics courses that were designed to satisfy the general science credit requirements for students of other majors.
Well, I guess it depends on what you consider the main points :)
The folks over at Discovery Ins. often make some good arguments but so saying is not at all the same as saying a person has signed on to any/all/part of positions they may take.
And it's for certain no one has a copyright on the term “intelligent design” so that they get to define how others use the term.
Oh. Your school didn't have a physics department.
What “main points”?
Yes. Like whether or not one believes in God. Whether or not one believes that man evolved over billions of years.
==I don’t believe you have any IDers on your list.
How will I ever sleep at night.
I’m an OEC / ID proponent. I am not a YEC that believes in 6 literal days of creation or that the Earth is 6,000 years old. Of course I do believe in God as the Intelligent Designer. I have told GGG this in another thread. Not sure if I meet the standards of your ID “witch hunt” however.
Here’s where I do stand: I believe in Jesus Christ as the Son of God who came in the flesh and died for our sins. That all men (and women) have sinned against God, and that without the acceptance of Christ’s sacrifice on our behalf that we are destined for eternal separation from God in the next life.
I believe that the Bible accurately describes the human condition, and it reveals things about nature (entropy, expanding universe, time having a beginning) that would have been impossible for Moses, David, and others to have figured out by themselves.
But I am not convinced that the Earth is only 6,000 years old. I also am not convinced that man has evolved from anything else. The theory of evolution seems to get more fragile as time goes on.
Ultimately, I am not sure why these threads attract so much hostility (GGG: though to be fair, some thread titles appear to be deliberately provocative :) ).
I am still of the opinion however that atheists — especially conservative atheists have a conscience that blares out to them, and their belief in morality, about limited government, and rights that are inalienable are concepts that require a belief in something greater than Humanity.
Then you cannot be an ID proponent.
I don’t think being an ID’er means you don’t believe in God. They specifically don’t tackle that question in their arguments, leaving it possible for you to believe their designer could be God, an alien, or what have you.
The billions of years issue is a major difference with most creationists, though there are camps of creationists for which that would not be a conflict either.
Now, as for points of agreement, both sides believe that the complexity we see in life could not have (at least entirely) arisen by random chance combined with natural selection. Both sides agree that many of the assertions of evolutionists are based on false premises or bad science. I think most ID’ers also agree with creationists that common descent is an unproven assumption not supported by observation. I’m sure there are more similarities, but you get the idea.
How can you believe in God and at the same time believe that God is not responsible for the evolution of man?
It seems that the age of the earth IS a major issue. How can a OEC and YEC find common ground when the YEC denies the what the other believes?
“It seems that the age of the earth IS a major issue. How can a OEC and YEC find common ground when the YEC denies the what the other believes?”
Well, the enemy of my enemy is my friend :)
Both OEC and YEC agree with each other on fundamental principles that unite us, which are much more important to us both than any of the little issues we may squabble about.
“How can you believe in God and at the same time believe that God is not responsible for the evolution of man?”
Maybe you don’t believe that man has evolved in the manner that evolutionists portray? To me, this statement is like asking:
“How can you believe in God and at the same time believe that God is not responsible for leprechauns and unicorns?”
I have seen several YEC'ers here condemn anyone that believes the earth to be older than that which the 'Bible states'.
Do you believe that man evolved over billions of years as the ID'ers portray?
Oh. You are willing to compromise your faith to align with a group that denies your faith?
“I have seen several YEC’ers here condemn anyone that believes the earth to be older than that which the ‘Bible states’.”
Sure, there are some people of any belief that are so vehemently certain of their particular view that they won’t accept any difference of opinion. However, I think that since most YEC and OEC folks are Christian, the majority of us try to keep in mind that we are united by fundamental beliefs that are much more important to us than how old we think the world is.
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