A Grand Bargain Over Evolution

NY Times ^ | August 23, 2009 | ROBERT WRIGHT

[ColdWater]

More from your discovery.org.

The two most prominent creationist groups, Answers in Genesis Ministries (AIG) and Institute for Creation Research (ICR) have criticized the intelligent design movement (IDM) because design theory, unlike creationism, does not seek to defend the Biblical account of creation. AIG specifically complained about IDM’s “refusal to identify the Designer with the Biblical God” and noted that “philosophically and theologically the leading lights of the ID movement form an eclectic group.” Indeed, according to AIG, “many prominent figures in the IDM reject or are hostile to Biblical creation, especially the notion of recent creation….” (4) Likewise, ICR has criticized ID for not employing “the Biblical method,” concluding that “Design is not enough!” (5) Creationist groups like AIG and ICR clearly understand that intelligent design is not the same thing as creationism.

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Dembski has Masters Degree in Divinity from Princeton Theological Seminary and is a Fellow at the Discovery Institute.

Whatever his beliefs he's written about God and various beliefs so how is he replacing God with I.D. in our language?

[ColdWater]

so how is he replacing God with I.D. in our language?

Would a true Christian write that the designer need not be a deity?

"All the design could therefore have emerged through a cosmic evolutionary process that started with the Big Bang. What’s more, the designer need not be a deity. It could be an extraterrestrial or a telic process inherent in the universe."

[ColdWater]

Your ID friends use the term “agnostic”.

“Creationism is focused on defending a literal reading of the Genesis account, usually including the creation of the earth by the Biblical God a few thousand years ago. Unlike creationism, the scientific theory of intelligent design is agnostic regarding the source of design and has no commitment to defending Genesis, the Bible or any other sacred text. “

[ColdWater]

If you ever wonder if your friends are true Christians, see if they pass the test.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2306526/posts?page=17#17

Hint. Check IDGunsGuts reply.

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I have read much of what is at the Discovery Institute’s site and what you quote here is irrelevant (as are the snide trivialities) to the question of whether I.D.ers are attempting to replace God in our language with I.D. or “Intelligent Designer”.

I.D. belief alone would be indifferent to who the Intelligent Designer is, God, The DemiUrge, no one at all.

In brief: The formal I.D. movement has not wanted to be identified with creationism since they don't wish to be identified with a religious belief. That doesn’t make every word they utter false or germane to intelligent design in the generic sense.

Creationists as a whole have no reason to reject the idea of an intelligent designer as God is most certainly viewed as intelligent and a designer by creationists. That is NOT agreement with the I.D. movement's pronouncements of agnosticism, atheism, or who knows-ism.

Ir's not my discovery.org and it's not IDGUNSGUTS either.

The question remains how I.D.ers are removing God from the language, in spite of your disgorgement of material irrelevant to the point.

[ColdWater]

Creationists as a whole have no reason to reject the idea of an intelligent designer as God

Are you saying the ID is God?

BTW, where did I read something about assigning human qualities to God....

[ColdWater]

Ir's not my discovery.org and it's not IDGUNSGUTS either.

My point in using 'your' is that you put it up as your example of ID movement. Just to be clear that it was you, not me.

[ColdWater]

The question remains how I.D.ers are removing God from the language, in spite of your disgorgement of material irrelevant to the point.

Sorry. I somehow thought that showing examples of how ID'ers were distancing themselves from God and creation was relevant.

[ColdWater]

Ir's not my discovery.org and it's not IDGUNSGUTS either

You are right. IDGunsGuts works for another site.

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“I guess you don't see the growning momentum that the ID’ers are working on in removing God from our language”

Since the I.D. movement was about design and not designer and intelligent design and not who the intelligence originated with there doesn't seem to be any closeness to turn into distance between them, God, and creationists, so yes, your pettifogging is irrelevant.

Here's a hint: In the English language capitalization can change the meaning of a word or words. Think about it.

[ColdWater]

Since the I.D. movement was about design and not designer and intelligent design and not who the intelligence originated with

Is that why the 'creationists' run away when asked if they believe that the ID'er is God? It should be a simple answer to a simple question. Even you did not answer.

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You didn't ask me and I can't answer a question when I don't understand what you're asking...What is an id’er?

[ColdWater]

You didn't ask me and I can't answer a question when I don't understand what you're asking...What is an id’er?

Ok. Do you, absolutely, believe that God is the Intelligent Designer?

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Of course...of course

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more silliness

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“Are you saying the ID is God?” No.

Why ask me what you have read? or where?

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I didn't claim anything about Dembski’s religious belief or lack of it, it was his actions I was pointing to. But maybe you could ask him or read enough of his published material to answer your own questions. Myself, I think he probably is an agnostic.

[ColdWater]

Myself, I think he probably is an agnostic.

Then you are starting to see my point about the ID movement pushing to remove God from our lives?

[ColdWater]

I have to go now. I will look forward to seeing your answer to #94 when I log in tomorrow. A simple yes or no will be adequate.