Free Republic
Browse · Search
Bloggers & Personal
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Health Care Debate: As Charges of Nazism Abound, Which Side Is Right?
Start Thinking Right ^ | August 10, 2009 | Michael Eden

Posted on 08/10/2009 10:59:05 AM PDT by Michael Eden

Nancy Pelosi upped the ante in the health care debate when she responded to a media question in the following manner:

Interviewer: Do you think there’s legitimate grassroot opposition going on here?

Pelosi: "I think they’re Astroturf… You be the judge. "They’re carrying swastikas and symbols like that to a town meeting on healthcare."

That being in addition to her reference to town hall protesters as "simply un-American."

Well, first of all, Nancy Pelosi calls health care opponents "Astroturf," and the propagandist mainstream media have duly found evidence of one or two emails from conservative groups instructing opponents of health care how to have maximum effect. Overlooked by both Pelosi and her media lackeys is the fact that liberal organizations are literally PAYING people to "defend Obama's health care."

The image she tries to project is a bunch of goose-stepping Nazis bringing their beloved swastikas with them like lucky charms.

Conservatives immediately complained: thousands of conservatives have attended town hall meetings around the country, and most of them hadn't even SEEN a swastika at a town hall, much less carried one themselves.

But even the uber uber uber leftist Media Matters, trying to document that at least SOMEBODY really was carrying a swastika, end up inadvertently demonstrating a very different picture.

So there are your "swastika-toting conservatives." A frightening mob of Nazis, they aren't.

The thing is, what they are clearly saying is that they DON'T want Nazism or Swastikas. And they're afraid that we're seeing something in this health care agenda that smacks of the things they're afraid of.

So a very, VERY few conservatives have brought signs that express their connection of ObamaCare to incipient Nazism. Is that so awful? First let us compare it to how Barack Obama, Dick Durbin, and Democrat protesters have used the word "Nazi."

Democrat Sen. Dick Durbin compared American soldiers to Nazis:

"If I read this to you and did not tell you that it was an FBI agent describing what Americans had done to prisoners in their control, you would most certainly believe this must have been done by Nazis, Soviets in their gulags, or some mad regime—Pol Pot or others—that had no concern for human beings. Sadly, that is not the case. This was the action of Americans in the treatment of their prisoners."
Barack Obama compared our entire country to Nazism:
“...just to take a, sort of a realist perspective...there’s a lot of change going on outside of the Court, um, that, that judges essentially have to take judicial notice of. I mean you’ve got World War II, you’ve got uh, uh, uh, the doctrines of Nazism, that, that we are fighting against, that start looking uncomfortably similar to what we have going on, back here at home.”
And of course images linking George W. Bush to Hitler or the devil are a dime a dozen. Here's a picture at a liberal protest that manages to do both at once, giving Bush both devil horns and a Hitler mustache:

There's a rather substantial compilation of Bush-as-Hitler comparisons here. But given the vast quantity of Bush derangement syndrome, it isn't - and frankly can't possibly be - anywhere near complete.

So on one hand you have to simply laugh (as in the kind of intense and sustained laughter that could literally cause you to die) at the sheer galling in-your-face hypocrisy and demagoguery of Nancy Pelosi and the left. The self-righteous, "How dare you? How DARE you?" tone doesn't suit them at all.

But while the above deflates any liberal claim to outrage, it doesn't justify throwing around Nazi Swastikas or using the word "fascist" at the Democrat's health care plan. Do these protesters have any better justification than that?

I believe they do. And here's why.

Reason One: Rush Limbaugh added a little gasoline to the fire that Nancy Pelosi started when he pointed out the visual similarity between the ObamaCare symbol and the Swastika. His point was that if pointing out Swastika symbols was good for the goose, it ought to be good for the gander as well.

Of course, the mainstream media came completely unglued. Rush Limbaugh played a rather lengthy montage of talking-point media outrage on his August 7 broadcast. And the White House - in continuation of a policy that seems to hold that free speech is only free if it passes White House muster - proceeded to warn Rush Limbaugh that he is on "thin ice."

But apart from the obvious surface artistic similarities that people either recognize or refuse to recognize, there is a somewhat deeper and much more profound issue: Obama is essentially taking the symbol for medicine, and combining it with his own political campaign symbol. The result is the ostentatious politicizing of health care as ideology. It truly IS ObamaCare as Obama's own symbol for it reveals!!! We haven't seen anything like that in this country since the LAST time we embraced significant elements of fascism in our politics over 70 years ago. And it is dangerous.

And a growing number of people are realizing it.

Reason two: Politically, there are some rather frightening political developments from within the Obama administration. Former "journalist"-turned Obama hack Linda Douglas reveals both how corrupt journalism has become and how fascistic Obama can truly be in this pitch:

There is a lot of disinformation about health insurance reform out there, spanning from control of personal finances to end of life care. These rumors often travel just below the surface via chain emails or through casual conversation. Since we can’t keep track of all of them here at the White House, we’re asking for your help. If you get an email or see something on the web about health insurance reform that seems fishy, send it to
When was the last time you were asked to turn in people practicing their free speech rights to the White House? The White House is asking people to turn in emails, web sites, and even people in "casual conversation." Can you imagine if the Bush White House had taken this course to collect information on protesters against the Iraq War? The New York Times would have run a 300-part series detailing it as rabid fascism. In this case, the blatant paranoia - and yes, the fascism - is being carried out by Barack Obama.

Reason three: But that's not the only connection Democrat-activists now have with fascism. Now there's also the "new Fascisti" in the form of union thugs who are coming in to intimidate and even beat conservatives at town halls. In fascist Italy, the Fascisti were the Blackshirted men who broke up opposition rallies with fists and whatever else was needed. In Hitler's rise to power, it was the SA Brownshirts. Now it's the SEIU Blueshirts. This certainly isn't the first time Democrats have relied on union thuggery to accomplish their goals.

After decrying town hall health care protesters as an "angry mob," Democrats are now bringing in goons to physically intimidate health care protesters.

It was Barack Obama who said:

“If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun.”
And this former community organizer who is so outraged that communities have been organizing has brought a gun in the form of union thugs to the "knives" of mostly elderly ObamaCare protesters.

Democrat Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid accused elderly health care protesters "of trying to sabotage the democratic process," by showing up at Democrat politicians town halls and demanding answers and shouting when they don't get them. But look at what's happening:

Over 1,000 St. Louis Tea Party Taxpayers showed up to attend the Russ Carnahan town hall meeting in South St. Louis. They were Locked Out! But... The Carnahah staff was sneaking in SIEU members in the side door marked "handicapped."


Is shutting out American citizens and barring them from access to their elected leaders not the REAL "sabotage of the democratic process"? How is stacking the political deck with your own people while deliberately shutting out your political opponents not fascist? And as we'll also see, how is bringing in burly union thugs to physically manhandle people for trying to express their political opinions not fascist?

In Tampa, Fla: Kathy Castor's burly union thugs manhandled a small elderly man (in the green shirt) with stage 4 cancer and shut the doors on protesters' faces to prevent opposing opinions from being heard.


The above footage is a little confusing. One of the protesters who was physically manhandled by the four burly thugs shoving them around at the same event tells his story.


Kenneth Gladney, a black conservative, was beaten by four thugs at another event as he offered "Don't Tread on Me" flags while trying to get into a town hall meeting in Missouri.


Is that the only thing that prompts people to compare ObamaCare to Nazism via their homemade posters of Swastikas with the red line through of "NO!" through them?

Not even close.

Let us explore the real reason that so many people - both Republican and Democrat - are so virulently opposing this health care plan.

Reason four: There's more than ample evidence that - contrary to Obama's and the Democrats' denials - that they very much DO want a government takeover of health care. And more and more people are realizing that this massive influx of pure socialism is not the American way.

Nearly three out of four (72%) Americans believe ObamaCare will add to the deficit, according to the most recent Quinnipiac University poll.

The current number being thrown around for Obama's health care is $1.6 trillion over ten years. But government routinely massively underestimates its costs, as I've documented in the past. The CBO was off by 633% in its estimate of the cost of Medicare; and off by 10,900% in estimating the cost of Medicaid special hospitals. A reasonable figure - based on an average of past CBO underestimation of government cost to fund government programs - is that ObamaCare will cost about $13 trillion over ten years.

Our debt has exploded under Barack Obama. As the Wall Street Journal's Michael Boskin put it:

Mr. Obama's $3.6 trillion budget blueprint, by his own admission, redefines the role of government in our economy and society. The budget more than doubles the national debt held by the public, adding more to the debt than all previous presidents -- from George Washington to George W. Bush -- combined.
And that explosion is going to have huge consequences down the road.

If we put our health care system under government control, it is absolutely unavoidable that we will have to massively ration our health care resources down the road. And there's the rub.

Somebody is going to suffer from neglect down the road, as scarce medical resources are allocated to some rather than others. And the elderly - who 1) are no longer represented in the work force while 2) consuming the lion's share of medical resource - are going to start getting the short end of the stick.

The Obama administration may not want to admit it, but they have already embraced the idea of denying medical care to senior citizens, given their president's choice of czars and top advisers.

Take Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel (White House Chief-of-staff Rahm's brother) - PLEASE. Dr. Emanuel is the health-policy adviser at Obama's Office of Management and Budget and is also a member of Federal Council on Comparative Effectiveness Research.

In January of THIS YEAR, Dr. Emanuel - who is a principal architect of the Democrat's health care plan - wrote:

"When implemented, the Complete Lives system produces a priority curve on which individuals aged between roughly 15 and 40 years get the most substantial chance, whereas the youngest and oldest people get chances that are attenuated... The Complete Lives system justifies preference to younger people because of priority to the worst-off rather than instrumental value."
For those of you who don't know what "attenuated" means, let me save you from heading for your dictionary. It means, "to make thin; to weaken or reduce in force, intensity, effect, quantity, or value." Basically, in Dr. Emanuel's usage, it means, "Time to make room for the next generation and shove off, Grandma and Grandpa."

Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel included a chart with his work (available here), which shows how he wants to allocate medical resources:

When you're very young, or when you start reaching your 50s, you start becoming toast.

Take Cass Sunstein, Obama's Regulatory Czar, who wrote in the Columbia Law Review in January 2004:

"I urge that the government should indeed focus on life-years rather than lives. A program that saves young people produces more welfare than one that saves old people."
Barack Obama's Regulatory Czar explains:
"If a program would prevent fifty deaths of people who are twenty, should it be treated the same way as a program that would prevent fifty deaths of people who are seventy? Other things being equal, a program that protects young people seems far better than one that protects old people, because it delivers greater benefits."
Which very much jives with what Obama told a woman concerning her mother:
"At least we can let doctors know — and your mom know — that you know what, maybe this isn’t going to help. Maybe you’re better off, uhh, not having the surgery, but, uhh, taking the painkiller."
Don't let the coffin lid hit your face on the way out, Grandma and Grandpa.

Glenn Beck brought out these statements on his August 6 TV program, adding that he wouldn't let these men bring him a can of Coke, much less give them the power to make health care policy and determine who lives and who dies.

Right now the decision as to how to allocate medical resources is divided up between innumerable people and organizations, both government and private. But if the "public option" wins the day, it will be centralized by men like Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel and Cass Sunstein. And as the government takes over health care, and as debt eats up government funding, men and women like Emanuel and Sunstein are going to be choosing death by denial of medical resources to increasingly more and more people.

THAT'S your big Reason. Rationed care. Denial of resources to the elderly. Death by neglect. THAT'S why health care protesters are screaming and shouting. THAT'S why people are carrying signs saying NO to the Swastika symbol of Nazi fascism. And with all due respect, it is a damn good reason to be frightened and pissed off to no end.

Keep your damned fascist paws off my parents' health care, Obama.

Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, liberal judicial activist of liberal judicial activists, had this to say about valueless life on the younger side (as opposed to Emanuel's and Sunstein's valueless life on the older side):

Ginsburg: Yes, the ruling about that surprised me. [Harris v. McRae – in 1980 the court upheld the Hyde Amendment, which forbids the use of Medicaid for abortions.] Frankly I had thought that at the time Roe was decided, there was concern about population growth and particularly growth in populations that we don't want to have too many of."
Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel wrote in 1996:
"Conversely, services provided to individuals who are irreversibly prevented from being or becoming participating citizens are not basic and should not be guaranteed."
Enter Eugenics right out of Margaret Sanger, the founder of Planned Parenthood, and right out of Adolf Hitler, the architect of Nazism. Enter the reason why so many Planned Parenthood clinics are STILL primarily located in black neighborhoods all over America - i.e., "growth in populations we don't want to have too many of." Enter the reason Planned Parenthood is STILL comfortable with the idea of selectively aborting black babies.

And lest you forget, the infamous 1930s-era Tuskegee experiment - the racist and eugenics-based study that studied the effects of syphilis on deliberately untreated black men - ran straight through FDR's New Deal, and through the course of his entire presidency.

Democrats are working to build a state in which it is the state which decides whether or not classes of people have the right to life, or the right to health care resources. They want to centralize decision-making, and make health care decisions for everyone so they can further control the economy (health care is 1/6th of the economy) and further control individual behavior.

The late (and very, very great) Dr. D. James Kennedy once prophetically said:

"Watch out, Grandpa; because the generation that survived abortion will one day come after you!"
One need only look at Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel's chart depicting the odds of receiving medical care versus age to see that the day Dr. Kennedy warned us about is now coming with a vengeance.

So who's right in throwing out comparisons of Nazism? If the choice is between Barack Obama and Nancy Pelosi and the health care plan they're pushing versus the angry crowds showing up at town hall meetings to oppose the plan, it's not even close. First of all, let no one forget that "NAZI" stoof for the "National Socialist German Workers Party." It was national socialism, as in the sort of socialism health care protesters are afraid of. Ronald Brownstein, senior writer at the National Journal, said recently that "The defining gamble of Barack Obama's presidency is that the public today is willing to accept more government activism...". Don't think for a second that the Nazis did not build a vast government health care system, which they then used to advance their political agenda. And the German national government medical system under Nazism looked far more like the system that Barack Obama and Nancy Pelosi want to impose than anything that the people shouting at town halls want to see.

TOPICS: Government; Health/Medicine; Politics; Society
KEYWORDS: 111th; aads; agenda; angrymob; astroturf; barackobama; bho44; bhofascism; bhohealthcare; bhotyranny; democrats; durbin; emanuel; enemedia; ezekielemanuel; fascist; fishy; healthcare; liberalfascism; lping; msm; nazism; obama; obamacare; obamathugs; obamatruthfile; obamedia; pelosi; publicoption; rahm; readthebill; seiu; singlepayer; socializedmedicine; swastika; teaparty; townhall; townhalls; unionthugs
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-31 next last

1 posted on 08/10/2009 10:59:08 AM PDT by Michael Eden
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Michael Eden

Fringe Mobs Targeting Health Care Reform
From: Charles Paidock”

Marc Laitin
> AFL-CIO Online Mobilization Coordinator
> P.S. We are going to win this fight, but we can’t do it without
> hard work. The Republicans and their corporate allies are going
> all out to stop reform, and the next 30 days are going to be
> critical. Call your representative toll free: 1-877-702-0976
> —————————————————————————
> If you received this message from a friend, you can sign up for
> Working Families e-Activist Network at:

Employers don’t have any use for people who aren’t healthy enough to work and make them rich. CP

> Subject: Fringe Mobs Targeting Health Care Reform

> Across the country, a small group of radical right-wingers are
> engaging in an all-out effort to stop real health care reform.
> There is little doubt that this increased level of coordinated
> activity is because we are closer to reform than we have been in
> more than 50 years.
> While we are getting closer to real reform, we can’t let up yet.
> We need to keep fighting to ensure that our voices are heard
> over the unruly mobs. More than 75 percent of America’s workers
> support President Obama’s plan for real health care reform, and
> we cannot allow a small band of angry zealots to stand in our
> way.
> Currently, fringe right-wing opponents of health care reform are
> focused on disrupting congressional town hall meetings. And
> we’ll be e-mailing you directly if we learn about town hall
> meetings near you. In the meantime, we need you to call your
> U.S. representative’s district office today and remind him or
> her to support real health care reform this year.
> Call your representative toll free: 1-877-702-0976
> The progress Congress has made so far toward reform has come
> thanks in part to the more than 50,000 phone calls made last
> week by activists like you. As of today, four congressional
> committees have approved health care reform bills with a quality
> public health insurance option, a requirement for employers to
> pay their fair share and no taxation of workers’ existing health
> care benefits.
> This is a remarkable achievement, and the furthest we’ve come in
> 50 years toward providing affordable, secure and stable health
> care for all. We still have a ways to go, and while the media
> loves to highlight all the bumps in the road, it’s important to
> remember two things: We have yet to lose a significant vote in
> Congress this year on health reform, and the president, his
> staff and leaders in Congress are all committed to enacting
> health care reform this year.
> Call your representative toll free: 1-877-702-0976
> If you have a chance to speak with your member of Congress or a
> staff member, here is a question and a few talking points you
> might find helpful. But personal stories are often the most
> powerful way to communicate the need for reform, so feel free to
> tell your own story.
> * Will you side with health insurers and vote for legislation
> that continues their control over health care, or vote for
> reform that puts patients and their doctors in charge of their
> health care?
> * I want real health care reform with:
> — A quality public health insurance option.
> — A requirement for employers to pay their fair share.
> — No taxation of workers’ existing health care benefits.
> Thank you for your support,
> Marc Laitin
> AFL-CIO Online Mobilization Coordinator
> P.S. We are going to win this fight, but we can’t do it without
> hard work. The Republicans and their corporate allies are going
> all out to stop reform, and the next 30 days are going to be
> critical. Call your representative toll free: 1-877-702-0976
> —————————————————————————
> If you received this message from a friend, you can sign up for
> Working Families e-Activist Network at:

2 posted on 08/10/2009 11:01:58 AM PDT by chicagolady (Mexican Elite say: EXPORT Poverty Let the American Taxpayer foot the bill !)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Michael Eden

I was watching the Military channel over the weekend and came across this statement by a journalist who questioned Hitler’s Nazism:

“I am writing this from cell 24. Outside a new Germany is being created. Many millions are rejoicing. Hitler is promising everyone precisely what they want. I think when they wake to their sobering senses, they will find they have been led by the nose and duped by lies.”

There have been way too many false promises being made by Obama, and way too many vicious political reprisals by the government against those who don’t buy those promises, to suit me.

3 posted on 08/10/2009 11:05:13 AM PDT by Michael Eden
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: chicagolady

Appreciate your posting that, ChicagoLady.

I was looking for one of those emails that are somehow exactly like the worst of what liberals claim conservatives are sending, only different (because only liberals have the right to “organize”).

Now I don’t have to look.

I will always wonder how liberals’ heads don’t explode from trying to contain all the contradictions and hypocrisy.

4 posted on 08/10/2009 11:07:59 AM PDT by Michael Eden
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Michael Eden; socialismisinsidious; Jeff Head; bamahead; nutmeg; MeekOneGOP


5 posted on 08/10/2009 11:09:47 AM PDT by EdReform (The right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed *NRA*JPFO*SAF*GOA*SAS*CCRKBA)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Michael Eden
ALL that is going on here, with the “snitch website”, is giving Obama a pass for a DICTATORSHIP! Yes, I mean a dictatorship. We are working up to the movie “1984” by George Orwell. Animal Farm by George Orwell is a good, get up to speed, book and movie to 1984. Any disagreement with the government is NOT tolerated. Intimidation, force and ignoring YOU and smearing YOU are all part of the plan.


6 posted on 08/10/2009 11:10:08 AM PDT by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Michael Eden

pilohseeeee started it didn’t she? Accusing citizens of this country carrying swastiks? Don’t know how to spell it and don’t much care. However, she ACCUSED our citizens of carrying such a terrible, terrible flag. How dare she?

She didn’t much care when they called George W. Bush a NAZI did she? Well, waht’s good for one is good for the other. She began this whole let her try and fix it.

7 posted on 08/10/2009 11:11:31 AM PDT by cubreporter
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: nmh

Using what force? An army he can’t trust?

8 posted on 08/10/2009 11:18:02 AM PDT by mdmathis6
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: mdmathis6
Union members are the first line of defense.

I wonder about the military ... can he trust them?

I KNOW they despise him ... what will they do? If they do a coup, what kind of a country will the U.S. be then? We have to be careful ... .

9 posted on 08/10/2009 11:23:22 AM PDT by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: cubreporter

It’s pathetic.

Pelosi trots out and demonizes American citizens as swastika-carrying anti-American mobs, and that is fine.

Rush Limbaugh says, “If you want to see a damn swastika, why don’t you look at Obama’s ObamaCare symbol?”

And the mainstream media comes unglued, and the White House threatens yet another American citizen for exercising his free speech rights.

The PEOPLE are compared to Nazis; the government which is suppressing free speech and demonizing citizens for political purposes CAN’T be compared to Nazis.

We need to start asking and answering the question: “What would I have done in 1932-33 as the Nazi party began to rise from political party to dictatorial regime?”

10 posted on 08/10/2009 11:26:22 AM PDT by Michael Eden
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Michael Eden
People need only read Ezekiel Emanuel's words themselves to you have posted here. Here's more quotes from him, all cited.


(Must Read - Sick, eugenics quotes of Emanuel)

The man is a modern day Dr. Mengele...and he is also the Chief Advisor to the President of the United States on Health Care, and a Policy Advisor to Congress on the same, so you know his beliefs are going to be written into the language to move us all, carefully in that direction.





...and on the lighter side, take your mind off the Obamanation for a few minutes and enjoy some beautiful Western US scenery slideshows.


11 posted on 08/10/2009 11:26:31 AM PDT by Jeff Head (Freedom is not free...never has been, never will be. (
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Michael Eden

I just noticed the crowd of people in the background of this symbol.

I assume these are the people waiting in line for basic health care needs.

12 posted on 08/10/2009 11:29:02 AM PDT by Yaelle
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Jeff Head

I appreciate your work gathering those quotes from Ezekiel Emanuel.

Confronting these bastards with their own words is far and away the best way to expose them for what they are and defeat them.

Frankly, if the Dems pass some kind of healthcare and claim victory I’ll be fine - as long as it doesn’t include or lead to a “public option.” Sadly, whatever they do will hurt, not help, health care. They refuse to even consider the most obvious solutions that would dramatically lower the cost of health care (such as ‘loser pays,’ limiting ‘free health care’ to American citizens, etc.).

I’m glad there are trench fighters like you at work!

13 posted on 08/10/2009 11:35:31 AM PDT by Michael Eden
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Michael Eden

The essence of the issue:

There are three sociopolitically sacred relationships:
- husband/wife
- clergy/parishioner
- doctor/patient

Any government which attempts to insert itself into the middle of one (or more) of those relationships is an oppressive totalitarian dictatorship. Lacking a good linguistic way to express this in common English, citizens object by likening attempts to institute such dictatorial governance with major historical instances thereof - hence the flaming rhetoric being applied and decried.

14 posted on 08/10/2009 11:38:01 AM PDT by ctdonath2 (Your opinion is doubleplusungoodthinkful. You have been reported to
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Michael Eden

Hi Michael,

I appreciate your personal page. I feel the same way.

15 posted on 08/10/2009 11:43:05 AM PDT by bethtopaz (
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Yaelle

No, those are the wraiths of all the people that the Nazi democrats will deem unworthy to live under his plan.

16 posted on 08/10/2009 11:54:03 AM PDT by RJS1950 (The democrats are the "enemies foreign and domestic" cited in the federal oath)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: ctdonath2

Interesting point, ctdonath2.

One of the things I notice is that the first two of your “sacred three” relationships are religious in nature. Marriage has historically been intrinsically religious, “wed in the sight of God” - and the idea of the “civil ceremony” is quite recent in human history.

I think what many people see is a loss of transcendence that leads to and feeds to government interference in all three relationships.

Modern Europe, which has socialized health care, is clearly not “Nazi.” They have learned JUST enough about their dives into past socialism to prevent another similar dive (at least for the time being). But they have also divorced themselves from religion.

Interestingly, Germany was the LEAST religious country in Europe prior even to World War I. And that religious vacuum was filled with something else - something which turned out to be terrible.

Ultimately, when we see a government takeover of something so personal as health care and end of life issues, it is VERY appropriate to question what that system is based on, and what it may very well (all protests aside) lead to.

The Judeo-Christian values life, free will, and conscience. Very few other systems of thought can sustain these values. That’s why every single socialist utopia has not only failed, but become monstrous.

17 posted on 08/10/2009 11:54:50 AM PDT by Michael Eden
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: bethtopaz

I “visited” your page, and RIGHT BACK ATCHA!

I would like to take this opportunity to honor both you and your son Joel for his service and commitment to this one nation under God that we love.

Every son or daughter who serves this nation as a soldier is a living testament to the character and values of his or her parents.

18 posted on 08/10/2009 11:58:58 AM PDT by Michael Eden
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: nmh

I wonder about the military ... can he (Obama) trust them?


A perfect example was the attempted coup against Gorbachov by Communist party hardliners. The took Gorbachov hostage (issuing a statement that Gorby had health problems) and took control of the government. They ordered the Soviet army to start supressing dissent (including firing upon Soviet citizens.)

The Soviet army refused, and instead surrounded the building the coup members were in, forced them to surrender, and returned Gorbochov to power (the Soveit Union fell not long thereafter.)

The Soviet army was brutal, and had no problem supressing people in other countries. They were also ultra-patriotic. There were not going to fire on their own citizens, nor allow a coup to take place.

America has an all volunteer army. The majority are very patriotic and belive they are fighting to protect the rights of American citizens. If ordered to fire upon American citizens in a wholesale manner, I think a significant number would simply refuse.

If Obama (or any president) attempted to hold onto power by nullifying an election or some other scheme, I’m not sure they could hold on. They would probably find themselves in a similar situation to the Soviet coup members.

19 posted on 08/10/2009 12:27:24 PM PDT by Brookhaven (And in their desperation, they turned to a man they fully did not understand--Rise of the Joker)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Michael Eden

Thanks, Michael (my favorite male name -— but it’s gotta be Michael, not Mike)!

I just read this article, hat tip from Jeff Head’s ( website. It’s absolutely chilling.

I’m not really good at posting and I’m sure it’s been posted before, but this might be a great time to do it again.

If you can do it, it would be great:

20 posted on 08/10/2009 12:52:19 PM PDT by bethtopaz (
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-31 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Bloggers & Personal
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794 is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson