Posted on 12/29/2008 8:54:49 AM PST by IrishMike
And when they do, what can one say? I don’t want to tell anyone they’re...
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Hm?
the enemy?
stupid?
naive?
part of the problem?
Okay, seriously how is this possible? I missed the last question - if taxes equal gov't spending then the gov't debt is zero - how is that wrong?
I don’t agree with you on much, but we’re kind of on the same page here.
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Citizen Blade, I often wonder if we have paid professional defenders of the government schools here on Free Republic.
That you are not defending sports in the government schools makes me think that you are like **not** a paid professional government school defender.
Yes.
First of all, is it the school that is effective or is it the fact that these schools are dominated by primarily intact mother-father families?
There is a high correlation- effective public schools tend to be clustered in areas with high incomes and educational levels (and two-parent households). This also means more parental involvement in education. Conversely, the worst school are in places with low incomes and educational levels and high illegitimacy/single-parent households. The schools reflect the communities around them (and vice versa).
Also...Is the academic success of these children do to the school or is it entirely due to the “afterschooling” done by the child and his parents?
Parental involvement is key in any child's education. I can only speak from my personal experience, however, that almost all of my schoolwork I did without my parents' involvement, other than occasionally asking for help in math and sciences.
Is it the school that is so successful or are the children successful **in spite** of their government school?
Educated yuppies in places like McLean and Chevy Chase demand accountability from their public schools. They expect their yuppie larva to go to good colleges. Accordingly, they stay on top of the schools and make sure they are getting their property tax money's worth. Like I said, schools reflect the priorities of the surrounding communities. Which explains why the schools in Anacostia are the worst of the worst.
So?...If you believe that a religiously, politically, and culturally neutral government school is possible please describe one.
We have different definitions of what constitutes a neutral education. I don't mind my kids being exposed to different viewpoints in school, including liberal (and even Marxist) ones. However, I demand that public schools stay true to their basic mission of educating children in math, science, English and history in as a non-biased way as possible.
We have fundamentally different views of what a school should be- you want a school to teach everything from your religious perspective. I know you do not want the public school to teach that perspective, which is commendable. However, you have to understand that many people pay more for a house to live in an area with good schools. Your plan to de-fund such schools is going to get you laughed out of the room in such places. People in such places are happy with their public schools and are not interested in any plan that will jeapordize their investments.
That is why voucher plans don't get much traction with parents who live in good school districts. They simply see no upside to letting students from other areas being able to enroll in their schools.
oh man.... my daughter played on a softball team with a girl from McLean High School. Let me tell you, the whole family thought they were better than anyone else and brought up where they lived at every chance. We live out in the country and they often made snide comments about the schools out where we were. Imagine her surprise when the girls filled out recruiting information and my child had the highest GPA, ranking, # of AP courses, highest AP average, highest SAT, and highest ACT scores. The mom was pretty shocked.
vThey simply see no upside to letting students from other areas being able to enroll in their schools.
Damn straight on this one....Trust me, these communities will fight tooth and nail to keep out what they see as undesirables. And by undesirable, their skin color means nothing as long as they have enough of the right color GREEN in their pockets
Thanks Mike.
Thank you.
I’m still trying to figure out how to turn it around. I hope you’ll do the same. If enough of us do that and talk it up among our friends and neighbors, perhaps we can get to the necessary critical mass before it IS too late. But we must hurry: I don’t think we have much time left.
Be safe.
The dirty little secret is that you don't have to be too rich to live in McLean. Not every house there is a couple million. Those people strike me like they might be covering up the fact that they live in the "low-rent" portions of McLean. Though, you can pretty much spend as much as you want on a house there.
Damn straight on this one....Trust me, these communities will fight tooth and nail to keep out what they see as undesirables. And by undesirable, their skin color means nothing as long as they have enough of the right color GREEN in their pockets
They view it as an investment, and rightfully so. Look at, for example, Chevy Chase- there is a road where the north side of the street is in Chevy Chase and the south is in DC. The houses on the north side sell for $100K more because the kids there go to Chevy Chase schools.
Vouchers and some scheme to de-fund all schools will get you nothing but funny looks from people in such areas. Why would they sign on to something like that, since it means their houses will go down in value and kids from the wrong side of the tracks might be sitting in class next to Aiden and Britney?
I teach in the public school. This is my fifth year of quietly adding some decent material to the propaganda and crap they mandate. It sounds to me like your kids are grown now and you could be starting one of these private schools you keep talking about.
I missed two questions and don’t agree with number 30, that is you must decrease both taxes and spending, IMO. The “correct” answer was decreasing taxes and increasing spending. I also missed the Lincoln/Douglas debate question but missed that one fair and square! I guess I am not ready for the ash heap yet.
I am not a cheerleader for vouchers or tax credits.
I am suggesting that conservatives form **private** education foundations that would award **private** grants to individual teachers who set up **private** ( tuition-free) mini-schools.
If the parents in Chevy Chase didn't wish to send their children to free conservative schools that's fine with me, but likely some will. They will especially use the tuition free private conservative schools if they produce a better educational result.
I believe that it is a completely achievable idea. Hey! Harvard has a $35 billion dollar **private** endowment. Colleges and universities across the nation have **private** endowments in the billions. Surely conservatives could do this for K-12 education.
If conservatives abandon the idea of brick and mortar schools, and adapt the teaching techniques to “mini-schools” that are already successfully used by homeschoolers, I believe every child in the U.S **could** have an opportunity for a free conservative education if they choose.
As well as setting up private alternatives, conservatives should join together to work for the complete defunding and shut down of every government school in the nation.
Government Marxist schools need two things: Students and money.
The private conservative schools would rob the government schools of students. Doing this takes teachers and other school employees off the government money teat. It also reduces the school tax burden of everyone in the community.
As parents and children leave the government schools their loyalty and votes for government schools go too. In this way, the rug is pulled out from under the feet of those living in places like Chevy Chase. Home value prices are also tied to property taxes as well. There is a reason the population is leaving Massachusetts. School property taxes is one of them. Communities with high school taxes will not be attractive to home buyers if excellent and free conservative schooling is available in communities with lower school taxes.
My kids started college at the ages of 13, 12, and 13. They finished all college general requirements and calculus III by the age of 15, Two had B.S. degree in math by the age of 18. One had a masters degree in math by 20. The oldest is also very highly accomplished.
My children are **normally** bright. I do not mention their accomplishments to brag. Homeschoolers across the nation are **commonly** achieving academic results like this.
Do you think the parents of Chevy Chase might choose private conservative ( tuition-free) schools that could produce results like this for their children, as well as provide their children with a solid moral and ethical foundation as well? I believe they would.
This is my fifth year of quietly adding some decent material to the propaganda and crap they mandate.
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I expect that you are a very moral and ethical teacher and completely **refuse** to cooperate in any way with the teaching of propaganda and “crap”. I expect that you completely reject the propaganda and “crap” and refuse to allow it to even enter your classroom. I am certain that you do this regardless of who “mandates” it and regardless of the consequences.
Now maybe you're not up for spending every day with inner city kids. You seem far more comfortable behind a computer, lecturing adults who already agree with you. But am I impressed with your accomplishments so far? Not enough to think it's time for you to retire and snark at the rest of us, no.
You've homeschooled three kids. Great. It's a good start.
Now get off the internet, stop screaming at conservatives to do something, and get out there and YOU do something. Use the experience you've gained, because if you think churning out three decent kids and then sitting on your laurels and yelling at us for the rest of your life is your contribution to the revolution, I have news. You're wasting your time hiding here in a safe place, preaching to the choir.
Quit yelling at other conservatives about what they need to do, and YOU do something. Get into the schools to exert as much influence as you can, or start your own school.
He hasn't completely ignored it, but merely touched on it briefly in a subtle way.
There seem to be some issues which the "conservative" media and "conservative" political figures can't muster up the courage to discuss and this Obama citizenship status is one. Even back in the Clinton era, things like the strange deaths of so many people surrounding WJC were pretty much taboo in "conservative" talk radio and in the Republican controlled Congress.
You bring up some good points, and if you don’t mind, I’m going to add to them.
For right now, today, not years in the future, every Freeper here who lives in the United States pays taxes to their local government with those taxes going to fund the local schools. Not all Freepers have kids and not all Freepers with kids have them in a public school - but all American freepers are paying for the public schools. So that brings me to my point.
Where are you guys? Are you in contact with your school board members? Do they know your name and your position on school policies? Even if you do not have a child in school, your money is there and you have the right to *D*E*M*A*N*D* that your money is spent in a fiscally responsible way. Instead of hanging out here talking about how awful the schools are, go attend the meetings and speak out during citizen’s time about issues, write letters to the editor of your local paper, volunteer to review textbooks, do what you can to make them spend your money in a conservative fashion
I hear some of you saying that it is ‘like giving CPR to a dead horse” Nope not at all - that horse ain’t dead. It’s alive and taking your money hand over fist every time you pay taxes.
Please read post #44 for a possible solution: Tuition free conservative schools
Posts #30 #33 #36 explain why government schools can not be fixed. Conservatives must work to abolish them and provide universal tuition-free alternatives.
It is a full time occupation to be a Spanish speaking missionary ( which will soon likely involve plenty of teaching and guiding our church's Spanish speaking children) and a grandparent involved in her grandchildren’s education. As for the Spanish speaking children of our congregation the teaching that they get from my husband and me may be the **only** effective teaching of any kind that they may get this year. It will likely include private one on one tutoring in literacy and English language. Gee! Some might even call that **HOMESCHOOLING***!
I can only urge Christians (and you too) to do half as much. I also hope that if you have children you are directing your first and most energetic efforts to them **first** and only if there is time and energy in abundance to helping other people's children.
If Christians would have given their very highest priority to teaching their **own** children first, and then second the children of their congregation, we would NOT have an abortion and infanticide ( literally) supporting Obama as president. Obama is president because too many Christians ( Catholic and Protestant) did **not** give highest priority to their **own** children's education first, and second to that of the children of their **own** congregation.
By the way, how much time and effort do you think it took ( and continues to take) for my husband and me to master Spanish to a fluent level?
It is very frustrating.
Are you suggesting that I “D*E*M*A*N*D” that the government **force** my conservative political, cultural, and religious philosophy on other people's resistant children????? I should “DEMAND” that government take from other people ( under threat of armed police action) their tax money to have government ESTABLISH **my** political, cultural, and religious worldview???
Huh?
This is **conservative***?????
If I don't want a leftist, Marxist, atheistic worldview imposed by threat of armed police on my kids or be forced to pay for it, I don't believe it is a conservative ideal to force liberal/Marxists to pay for what I would consider to be appropriate indoctrination.
It is IMPOSSIBLE to have a religiously, politically, or culturally neutral education. No matter who makes the “DEMANDS” the government will **establish** the religious, political, and cultural worldview of the noisiest lobbyists in the community while simultaneously undermining and destroying the precious religious, political, and cultural traditions of others.
Government schools never were, are not now, and never can be religiously, politically, or culturally neutral. This can not be “fixed” because it is axiomatic.
Actually, the “horse” of government schooling was stillborn from the beginning. Government schools always were, are now, and always will be a First Amendment and freedom of conscience nightmare. CPR really would be useless.
By the way, once tax money is in the hands of the government is it no longer my or your money. This money now belongs to the Marxist collective.
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Excellent plan. But do you have ANY idea how insanely the NEA and federal educrats would resist such a plan? They’d throw up every roadblock currently at their disposal and probably — with the help of their socialist pals now infesting Washington — invent a few more.
Not saying that this is not a fight worth making but it will be very, very difficult.
Do you know of anyone currently investigating such an approach?
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