National Sales Tax Controversial Among Anti-Tax Economic Experts

thebulletin ^ | 01/25/2008 | By: Bradley Vasoli

[xcamel]

Ready... Aim....

[xcamel]

Fyi

[xzins]

Another political hurdle low-tax advocates face by embracing a national sales tax, he continued, is the fact that the 16th Amendment to the Constitution provides for the levying of a national income tax. He said he could only support a retail sales tax if the amendment were repealed and another amendment enacted in its stead specifically forbidding federal taxation of income. The modern activist judiciary, he said, would likely allow the reinstitution of federal income taxes unless instructed explicitly not to do so.

The above is the key. Without repealing the 16th, you can bet that we'll simply end up with the old taxes and a new tax.

That would be disastrous, but it would be right down the alley of big government Democrats and Republicans alike. They'd love to snooker you with the idea of one, but sucker you into getting two.

[6ppc]

You're going to have to have a rebate system and you're going to have to have monthly reporting of your income to a federal official,"

Not true...everyone gets the same rebate regardless of income. I'm still not sure I like the Fair Tax though.

[xcamel]

At least the voices that question the NRST (fairtax) are being heard now, instead of shouted down or drowned out.

[xcamel]

Income still has to be reported for SS purposes... It’s in the bill.

[Paladin2]

Prebate: To attempt to have a debate before the arguments are ready for prime time, typically with ignorant trolls on the pro side.

Example: This is a typical, cogent argument from the pro side in a prebate:"LOL! A SQL word. Does it mean: “lost your nuts?”

Also gives new meaning to the word "dufus, doofus"

[pnh102]

Why not just repeal the 16th amendment and replace it with nothing.

[Paladin2]

The FT rolls the FICA and Medicare taxes into the dogfood and makes you eat it all at once.

How does the SSA know how to credit your earnings? Monthly reports from your employer, unclear on the self employed. Duh!

[xzins]

I support the idea of a fair tax, but only if the 16th is repealed. Period.

If the 16th isn’t first repealed, then I don’t support the NRST. First the repeal, then my support.

There is no other way. And no sane person would do it otherwise.

Without the repeal, I support a 2-tier flat tax as proposed by Thompson, with the entire tax code thrown out except for deduction of mortgage interest.

I also support the recognition of ANY money paid to the government for any fee, consumption, withholding, license, etc. to be legally classified as a tax.

[expatpat]

Seems like a fair and balanced discussion, though I think the rebate was supposed to go to everybody, so the ‘poor’ definition wouldn’t be necessary.
My problems with the FT are (a)the double taxation of savings, (b) the rather deceptive way it is evangelized, (c) the inability to kill the 16th Amendment.

[xcamel]

Reasonable replacement here.. .. if any at all.

[KarlInOhio]

However, he believes the very rebate system that the fair taxers tout as helpful to the poor will engender bureaucratic rigmarole. Because such a payment to poorer citizens would come monthly, the government would need to keep monthly track of who is officially "poor."

"You're going to have to have a rebate system and you're going to have to have monthly reporting of your income to a federal official," he said.

Wrong, wrong, wrong. Under the FairTax all citizens and legal residents get the rebate. Bill Gates' family will get the same one as someone with the same size family who earns nothing. Thus no income tracking or reported is needed.

[Paladin2]

Here's the plan:

Kill the corporate income tax

Phase out SS - keep FICA payroll deductions until phaseout

Cut Federal Gov't spending to 50% of today in real dollars over the same period as the SS phaseout

Medicare - keep payroll tax until I figure what to do with this although some type of phase out would be good.

No deficit spending

Gov't to do regular corporate accounting. Balance sheet, income statement. Separate long term investments from short term investments from expenses (regular spending).

When the above is accomplished, eliminate the personal income tax and institute a national sales tax of no more than 7% - ever. Put it in the Constitution ilo the 16th. Issue vouchers for pre-ST AT investments to handle the transition.

Cut Congress Members pay 10% per year for every 1% inflation for the year is above 1%.

Alternate - fine 'em $100,000/Congressman for House $1,000,000/Senator for Senate for each 1% inflation for the year is >1%. No pay raises for Congress, ever. Stick it in the Constitution. If they can't pay, send then to GITMO for some water play. NO FREAKINING PREBATES.

NO EDUCATION EXEMPTION

States TBD

Make the US's motto "Live Free or Die". Set an example and kick MA out of the country and substitue Alberta, CA. If MA wants back in, let 'em beg.

That's the second draft of an outline.

[xcamel]

No endorsement of the FT whatsoever, but anyone with a brain would just say:
“If the PB goes to everyone regardless of income, delete it, and lower the rate.”

[KarlInOhio]

Thus no income tracking or reported is needed.

Oops. I forgot that you still need to track income for later SS benefits.

[xcamel]

Read the bill.. income reporting is indeed in there.

[counterpunch]

You honestly believe the ‘FairTax’ prebate would remain the same for everyone very long?
Do you honestly believe Democrats wouldn’t turn it into a giant socialist boondoggle, running on promises of bigger prebate checks every two years and ensuring a permanent Democrat majority and a one-party Socialist State?

How long have you lived on this planet, and how many of those years have you followed American politics?

[expatpat]

There is a difference: the rebate is a lump sum and makes the FT less regressive compared with the IT or your version.

[mtnwmn]

“it would still require the elderly to pay a brand new tax on the goods and services they purchase, after paying taxes on their income their whole lives.”

Do away with taxes to anyone over 62.