[Pyro7480]

MSM rewriting history about Swift Boat Veterans for Truth

[tear gas]

The victims of 911 know Rudy is a coward. New York's "first responders" have no respect for Rudy. None of this is news.

Our troops deserve a strong Commander in Chief that they can respect. I could never ask our troops to salute Rudy Giuliani. I can't even imagine that.

[HuntsvilleTxVeteran]

Rudy sure fits a democrat profile!

IT is for the murder of unborn babies!
IT is a big gun control nut!
IT covered for the invaders in ITS city!
IT surrounds ITself with queers and thugs!

Why does IT have an R by ITS name instead of a D?

[Jet Jaguar]

“The difference between the ‘Swift Boating’ and this is that everything that we are saying is the truth.”

Liberals keep repeating it enough, it becomes truth to them.

[Rembrandt]

“is this another ‘Swift Boat’ situation, in which unsubstantiated attacks against John Kerry’s service in Vietnam, scuttled his presidential candidacy. These families say no.”
—
This twit never read the book or else she came at it from a virulent anti Pubbie POV. 220 or so substantiating vs. about 13 defenders is pretty convincing in my book, especially considering that those substantiating the allegations include Admirals, Captains, Commanders and other career officers and NCO’s.

Kerry is obviously guilty of the allegations and this twit is guilty of being a tool.

[DakotaRed]

He cannot be “swift Boated” unless he has a detrimental truth he is hiding from the public to get himself elected, like John ‘F’raud Kerry did.

[narses]

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Please ping me to all note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of interest.

I’m pro-choice. I’m pro-gay rights, Giuliani said. He was then asked whether he supports a ban on what critics call partial-birth abortions. “No, I have not supported that, and I don’t see my position on that changing,” he responded. Source: CNN.com, “Inside Politics” Dec 2, 1999 http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Rudy_Giuliani_Abortion.htm

ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES (November 14, 2006)

RUDY GIULIANI (R), FORMER MAYOR OF NEW YORK CITY: I'm pro- choice. I'm pro-gay rights.

KING: Giuliani supports a woman's right to an abortion, and back in 1999, he opposed a federal ban on late-term abortions.

GIULIANI: No, I have not supported that, and I don't see my position on that changing.

KING: Immigration could be another presidential landmine. Back in 1996, Mayor Giuliani went to federal court to challenge new federal laws requiring the city to inform the federal government about illegal immigrants.

JEFFREY: He took the side of illegal immigrants in New York City against the Republican Congress.

KING: Giuliani opposes same-sex marriage but as mayor, he supported civil unions and extending health and other benefits to gay couples. He also supported the assault weapons ban and other gun control measures opposed by the National Rifle Association.

GIULIANI: I'm in favor of gun control. I'm pro-choice.

Republican Big-Wigs Support Pro-Abortion Event in NY

Pro-abortion Governor George Pataki and New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani, who also supports unrestricted abortion, are co-chairs of the 2000 Choice Award Presentation to be held on May 30 at the St. Regis Hotel in New York City. The event is sponsored by the Republican Pro-Choice Coalition, a group that is campaigning for the removal of the pro-life plank from the Republican National Platform.


http://www.nationalreview.com/murdock/murdock200503010743.asp

While he was the “Republican Mayor” of New York City he appointed more than 60 men and women to the Civil, Criminal, and Family Court benchs. In all of those judicial appointment only two were Republican.

All of his other judical appointments were either registered Liberals or registered Democrats. As the “Republican Mayor” he had appointment power over more than 70 full commissioners in more than 50 City agencies, yet at no time during his administration did REPUBLICANS account for more than 10% of those appointments.

He even appointed Chuck Schumers wife as the City’s Department of Transportation Commissioner.


________________________________________________________________
http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/9054.html

“And even as we grieve for those who lost their lives, and our hearts and prayers go out to the victims and their loved ones, we may be able to find some sort of meaning in this tragedy by using it as a catalyst to revive national gun control efforts.”
Rudolph Giuliani

At the first Republican debate in May, Giuliani was alone among the GOP candidates in offering a less-than-robust affirmation when asked whether it would be a good day if the Supreme Court overturned the Roe v. Wade ruling.

"It would be OK," Giuliani said. "It would be OK to repeal it."

But, he added: "It would be OK also if a strict constructionist viewed it as precedent" and kept the law intact.

[Steely Tom]

MSM rewriting history about Swift Boat Veterans for Truth

Yes, this is an interesting play that has, unfortunately, been run before by the left/MSM.

The sequence goes like this:

Someone, like the Swifties, brings up an inconvenient argument that interferes with the template, or story line, the left/MSM is selling.

Step 1: ignore them. If that doesn't work:
Step 2: malign them. There are several modes to this one; guilt by association, paint them as extremists, find one kook among them and make him/her the face of the whole organization, etc. If that doesn't work:
Step 3: muddy the waters. Intentionally mis-state their key argument (examples, calling the "Contract With America" the "Contract On America," referring to illegal aliens as "immigrants" and characterizing anti-illegal-immigrant groups as "anti-immigrant groups," etc.). If this doesn't work:
Step 4: find someone among the GOP or right-wing who is willing to bad mouth the group publicly. This person may be a has-been who wants publicity, a flake or borderline-mentally-disordered or senile member of the GOP, who can be pumped up into a spokesman for the mainstream. If this doesn't work:

Well, you get the idea. I think there are some more tricks they try to pull, like looking into the group's funding sources and seeing if they can come up with something embarrassing; you may be able to think of others.

If all these don't work, and (like the Swifties) the group succeeds in it's goals and really hurts the "cause," the agenda, well... the story's not over.

Then the left/MSM embarks on a long-term strategy to (a) undercut the original argument of the group, and (b) try to confuse the group's original goals and mission with that of other, less savory groups. The goal here is, again, to muddy the waters with younger people as they come of age, making sure that the original group (the Swifties, in this case) does not become a heroic model for future activism. This effort may go on for decades (in the case of Joe McCarthy, the Rosenberg matter, and the Alger Hiss matter, the effort has gone on for half a century or more).

That's what we're seeing here. It used to work, in the age of the concentrated power of the one-way MSM. In the modern era, I'm not so sure. There are a lot more ways for the truth to get out now, and it's much harder for the left to choke the baby in the crib, so to speak.

(steely)

[Brad from Tennessee]

If “9/11 Families” is Googled a bunch of different outfits appear. Some are legitimate and some are Democrat front groups—like the “Jersey Girls.” Conservatives have enough valid reasons for questioning Guiliani without adopting the talking points of a union smear machine.

[BallyBill]

Talk about a story with no winners.

Of course CNN is "The Biggest Loser".

[donna]

Swift-boating: It’s a GOOD thing.

[2ndDivisionVet]

“Swift boating” otherwise known as vicious truthing!

[SergeiRachmaninov]

Definition: swiftboat - v., to expose a poseur and reveal his true character by bringing forth convincing evidence

[freespirited]

I have done a little research on the complaints of these folks. Here is one of the pieces of info I have found. It is in regard to the testimony of the emergency preparedness guy before the 9/11 commission. He is a Hillary supporter. So far I have not found anything from him that backs up the families' complaint; he seems to have emphasized some kind of turf problem between the police and fire depts:

Later in the day, however, Jerome M. Hauer, who had served as director of the Office of Emergency Management for Mr. Giuliani, said the city had purchased radios to permit the two agencies to communicate, but had run into political problems.

"We attempted to get the Police and Fire Departments to communicate on both a common radio frequency at hazardous materials incidents and on an 800 megahertz frequency at major emergencies," Mr. Hauer said. "We were unable to get the two groups to share a common frequency at hazardous materials emergencies and the 800 megahertz radios were carried by fire chiefs, although rarely used, but not by the Police Department."

http://www.skyscrapersafety.org/html/article_20040520.html

[Jim Robinson]

"Will Rudy Be ‘Swiftboated’?"

Does a bear poop in the woods?

[freespirited]

Fire Dept officials were criticized by the staff of the 9/11 commission. In fact, their bad call was blamed for lost lives. Communication failures were deemed inevitable in a disaster of this scale.

-----------------------------------------------------------

In a report issued before Wednesday's testimony, the panel's staff found that New York fire officials had failed to realize that they could have dispatched firefighters more quickly to the South Tower in the crucial minutes after the skyscraper was hit by the second plane. Because of a lack of timely information, commanders dispatched new fire units to the South Tower instead of turning to units on hand in the North Tower. As a result, the additional firefighters arrived later and, in many cases, were killed in the ensuing collapse, the report said.

"The decision to handle the South Tower by dispatching new units meant that the number of firefighters available to help evacuees in that tower was relatively small for at least the first 20 minutes after the tower was hit, though that number sadly was rising in the minutes before that tower collapsed," the staff wrote in a 10-page report.

That haunting conclusion followed Tuesday's report, which acknowledged numerous acts of heroism and bravery on Sept. 11, 2001, but detailed widespread problems with the communication and organization of New York police and fire officials. The panel found that employees in the South Tower were erroneously told to stay there by 911 operators even after an evacuation order had been issued, and despite the fact that one of the stairwells in that tower remained passable.

By contrast, Wednesday's report praised the emergency response to the attack on the Pentagon in Northern Virginia, crediting a clear command system that vested a significant amount of power in one entity: the Arlington County Fire Department. But the commission report also cautioned that the "two experiences are not comparable" because of the scale of the calamity at the World Trade Center, which involved tens of thousands of potential victims and was far less contained than the devastation at the Pentagon.

But the staff also found that authorities in the Washington area reported communication glitches and other problems similar to those in New York. In an "after-action report" by Arlington County, for example, officials described problems with radio channels and equipment that had also plagued firefighters and police officers at the World Trade Center.

"Cellular telephones were of little value. . . . Radio channels were initially oversaturated. . . . Pagers seemed to be the most reliable means of notification when available and used, but most firefighters are not issued pagers," the Arlington report said, according to the commission.

The report concluded that command, control and communication problems "will likely recur in any emergency of similar scale." It recommended that New York adopt an "incident command" system to provide better coordination during major emergencies. Although Bloomberg and other New York officials testified that their new plan fits that definition, several commission members argued that the plan may cause more problems than it solves.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A39104-2004May19_2.html

[Liberty Valance]

I did not know that Rudy was in Viet Nam.

[Brimack34]

Rudy will be the nominee. Forget Iowa and New Hampshire. He will win enough states to advance. We will have to deal with it. I would rather have Fred or Duncan. But there will be Supreme Court openings to deal with.

[alloysteel]

Depends on the definition of “swiftboating”. The charges against John F. Kerry, that he performed poorly, or even as conduct unbecoming of an officer, while stationed in Viet Nam, were pretty largely based in fact and the recollections of those who served in close proximity with him.

No similar charges, with a verifiable factual basis, have been, or are likely to be, brought against Rudy Giuliani. While Rudy has been somewhat callous and even ruthless occasionally in his personal relationships, and may have made a bad judgment call a couple of times (Bernard Kerik comes to mind), still there are no open malfeasances of office that are substantiated. Giuliani has not traded upon his position for personal advantage, as have certain others formerly and currently seeking higher office.

Of course, nobody is specifically prohibited from making allegations. But proving them, or even making them seem plausible, is another matter altogether. In the case of John F. Kerry, the “swiftboating” seemed altogether believable, given his civilian record since. Plus those annoying corroborating statements by those who were there.

[stevem]

I will always look back fondly at the 2004 campaign. You had a few good men with a shoe string budget take on a hundred million dollar campaign assisted by the infinite budget of the MSM...and win.

The fact that CNN wants to remind the world day after day that they are losing power my the second is doubly gratifying.

I wonder how CNN and the rest of the MSM really felt about alien amnesty.

I don't think Guiliani is going to make it, but it won't be because of his 9/11 efforts.

[SJackson]

Hopefully, the concern being that the “exposers” have the credibility of the Swift Boat Vets. Without credibility it’s Borking.