Skip to comments.Turkey’s Top General: "The US Shot Itself in the Foot"
Posted on 10/15/2007 5:06:41 PM PDT by cool2007
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Given the results of Gulf War I, NO! As an "excuse" for the Turks for their behavior, that ranks right down at the bottom of probability.
That's one of the reasons to not include the speculation that they were some sort of Svengali pulling all the strings.
The Islamic Caliphate, which Osama Bin Laden wants to re-establish, did the killings.
Shifting blame from Osama to the Germans ain't in the cards eh!
Robert Mapplethorpe’s whip perhaps?
Why isn’t the President raising hell about this? Seems like a good opportunity to point out RATs causing problems to the troops. Oh wait, republicans are above politics.
There was no attempt by the book's author to "shift the blame." The author did however find facts that prove that there was involvement in the crimes. That was true of some German officers. Others were passive and some tried to report the crimes but were reprimanded by their superiors.
One book reviewer wrote "A commission on these atrocities, which issued its final report on March 29, 1919, accused Turkey and its allies (the Germans) of using barbarous and illegitimate methods against the Armenian citizens. Again, a committee of jurists in 1920, commissioned by the Council of the League of Nations, concluded that the official order to deport the Armenians en masse "was a violation in international law" (p.l9). Two German generals, Bronsart (on July 25, 1915) and Boemich (on October 3, 1915), who served as members of the military mission in Turkey, are said to be responsible for ordering the Armenian deportation."
Here the reviewer is referring to one or two incidents of deportation not the whole operation which was of course the doings of the Ittihadist Turks (Young Turks). I believe that Ittihadist refers to the Committee of Union and Progress Party, not sure.
I don't think it works out all that clearly since there were many "young" Turks of every political, cultural and social stripe.
Now who would be churning up this stuff? Well, the Brits ~ the ancient Ottoman enemy ~ and the Russians under the Commies.
Speaking of folks who have to account for some genocide, the Russians took Ottoman territories that'd been Turkish for a thousand years and did ethnic cleansing on a grand scale. Millions of people were erradicated, their land taken, and then sold and rented out to Mennonite German farmers.
Not sure anybody wants to get into the assignment of "blame" where the Mennonites look like they were in league with the bad guys.
(Last thing the Nancy woman wants to do is blame her little friends in Russia, but she might bite at a chance to smack down some Protestants.)
(Oh, yeah, lest I forget, the Nancy woman is a pig ~ a regular pig ~ )
(She'd want to ~ real bad ~ but unless she reads FR she won't know about that part).
I cannot argue about that.
However Vahakn N. Dadrian the author is not a Denier and he is acknowledged as an expert on the Armenian genocide. His book -- apparently no longer available except through rare book sources -- is described by one reviewer thus "The volume consists of two long legal briefs, each of which is approximately eighty pages, with supporting appendices. Dadrian chose to construct the volume in this manner because he wanted to identify by a preponderance of evidence those Germans engaged in criminal acts and those who abetted the crimes."
I have absolutely no problem believing that some German military of that era were complicit -- and I have no problem believing that Kaiser Wilhelm II knew (going back to 1895-96) but could care less, he needed the Turks for his plans in the Middle East and later, the world.
RE: the Russians took Ottoman territories that'd been Turkish for a thousand years and did ethnic cleansing on a grand scale.
I'm glad that you mentioned that. Since the Russians did it and the Bolsheviks soon thereafter had control of Russia and marched into Armenia, it's not surprising that those pesky massacres have been ignored by all except the Turks. Though I know very little about the details.
...better fractions than decimals. Death before decimals...
This resolution has a single, simple purpose:
To end the war before the Republicans can call it a victory.
The Democrats, on a PARTY LINE VOTE, passed this bill knowing its effect on our Turkish allies.
In effect, the Democrats are doing what Al Qaeada could not: choke off vital US military supply and logistics infrastructure in a swift, sudden blow.
France passed a similar resolution and the Turks abruptly, and quite rightly, severed suddenly all military connections and relationships with France.
Traitorous (there is no other word), but not original, some staffer came up with this, convinced Pelosi and Reid that if they could vote to stop the war and bring the troops home, the Turks would force the issue and do it for them.
As for timing, couldn’t be any more perfect - the Turks are ready to come after the PKK in Kurdistan (Northern Iraq).
I just keep wondering what the heck is going on behind the scenes.
We in the New World have a much different view of 'ancient history' than do the peoples of the Old World. If some foreign government passed a resolution condemning the United States for condoning slavery by its Founding Fathers, we might bristle a bit, but practically no American citizen alive today would take it as a personal affront. Perhaps the fact that so many of us are descended from immigrants who arrived after slavery was abolished helps us separate ourselves from culpability for that status. The Turks don't have that situation.
Was never passed—— wake up
They sort of do. The government that conducted the pogrom against the Armenians is no more. It was overthrown not so long after the event.
To blame today's Turks for it, is like blaming todays Germans for Hitler's genocide, except that at some signifigent fraction of Hitler era Germans are still alive, while few pre 1920 Turks are likely to be alive).
Besides, most of us are decended from both pre and post slavery immigrants. Few have ancestors who fall in only one or the other category.
Good point! I was descended from French-Canadians, and immigrated to the US as an infant. I plan to use that if they ever demand 'reparations' from us!
Still, I imagine the Turkish population is more homogenous than the US population has been since 1920. I'd be willing to bet that a much higher percentage of Turks' ancestors were living in Turkey then, than you would find of current US residents' ancestors living here in that year. Otherwise, why would they be so very offended?
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