Posted on 08/23/2007 5:45:11 PM PDT by Reaganesque
"This handsome indie Western damningly recounts the 1857 slayings of 120 settlers passing through Utah, but the didactic presentation, grim speechifying and tacked-on love story all signify a less-than-healthy regard for the audience's intelligence."
Variety Justin Chang
1/4 "The film feels less like historical drama than a venomous religious tract printed on celluloid." Minneapolis Star Tribune Colin Covert
"September Dawn has the ham-fisted lyricism of political ads and pharmaceutical commercials." Village Voice J. Hoberman
"When the movie isn't doling out ham-fisted history...it gives us magnificent vistas of a pristine prairie...and there's a deep sweetness to the subplot of Jonathan and Emily falling in love." Film Journal International Frank Lovece
1.5/4 "When watching the screen depiction of a historic event in which 120 people were murdered, giggling is not the appropriate response." Salt Lake Tribune Sean Means
1/5 "It has the chilling certitude of the self-righteous." Orlando Sentinel Roger Moore
2.5/5 "The real problem is that September Dawn isn't a very good movie. It moves too much like a public-school history pageant and gives us mono-dimensional characters who speak dialogue that fairly reeks of printer's ink." Arizona Republic Richard Nilsen
1/5 "The jarring MTV-style filmmaking is so distracting and the 'messaging' so unsubtle that after two long hours you find yourself leaving the theater with a massive headache, wondering when you started to hate Mormons." Orlando Weekly Brett Register
1/4 "Forget Grindhouse. September Dawn is the year's first honest-to-goodness exploitation flick." Slant Magazine Nick Schager
1/4 "Bombastic, slow-drying dramatization with lead-weight dialogue and a turgid romantic subplot." Newsday Gene Seymour
D- "Has serious problems in historical terms. But in this case they're exacerbated by the simple ineptitude of the filmmaking." One Guy's Opinion Frank Swietek
"Even if one gets past the movie's controversial depictions, there is the matter of its second-rate, made-for-television fare -- the poor battle choreography, the wooden editing and the cheesy writing." Washington Post Desson Thomson
2.5/4 "If September Dawn is a kind of Western, it's a Western utterly devoid of heroism or the usual archetypes. But the core message transcends time: Hatred laced with religious fanaticism is a toxic blend." Milwaukee Journal Sentinel Dave Tianen
1/4 "Doesn't even measure up to an episode of your typical, cowboy TV show from the Fifties like Roy Rogers or The Lone Ranger. Get my drift, Kimosabe?" NewsBlaze Kam Williams
Click here for links to the full reviews.
I think there has been a lot of improvement in this area since the days of the "September Six" and I believe we are entering an era of greater freedom for church historians. Intellectuals who want to publicly question doctrine are always going to have a tough time, especially if they work for the church.
It was my understanding that Joseph Smith wrote the Book of Mormon, that no manuscripts exist of the writings of Nephi. Is my understanding incorrect? Are there numerous manuscripts that confirm the Book of Mormon (like there are numerous ancient manuscripts that confirm the Bible), or only the Egyptian tablet that Joseph thought was ancient Hebrew?
The Honor Code
Brigham Young University, Brigham Young University-Hawaii, Brigham Young University-Idaho, and LDS Business College exist to provide an education in an atmosphere consistent with the ideals and principles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. That atmosphere is created and preserved through commitment to conduct that reflects those ideals and principles. Members of the faculty, administration, staff, and student body at BYU, BYU-H, BYU-I, and LDSBC are selected and retained from among individuals who voluntarily live the principles of the gospel of Jesus Christ. Observance of such is a specific condition of employment and admission. Those individuals who are not members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are also expected to maintain the same standards of conduct, except church attendance. All who represent BYU, BYU-H, BYU-I, and LDSBC are to maintain the highest standards of honor, integrity, morality, and consideration of others in personal behavior. By accepting appointment on the faculty, continuing in employment, or continuing class enrollment, individuals evidence their commitment to observe the Honor Code standards approved by the Board of Trustees “at all times and . . . in all places.” (Mosiah 18:9)
The scholars you reference signed a legally binding contract where these conditions were very clearly spelled out. They knowingly violated it. They were fired. They knew that such criticisms would get them fired but they went ahead anyway, bit the hand that fed them and then complained bitterly about the injustice of it all when BYU held them to their word.
That was precisely my point. The perps have hidden behind the conviction and execution of Lee for far too long. It's time for the truth. You're a military man, right? Did you know Lee had two commanding officers on that field that day, and was following orders. Why was he the one who was scape-goated?
There is no doubt that Lee should have had ample company standing next to him when the firing squad fired their volley.
It should be pointed out, however, that the perps are no longer hiding as they are all dead. Whether all the perps other than Lee are being discreetly swept under the rug to this very day is another matter.
While I do believe in individual responsibility rather than collective guilt, trying to hide historical facts is the moral equivalent of being an accessory after the fact.
I have no religious or family connection with this historical event so I am trying to analyze it as a neutral third party without an ax to grind. For the moment, until I learn other information, I am inclined to view it as the moral responsibility of the Cedar City Mormon community and not the moral responsibility of the entire Mormon community of the time.
After the massacre, there was a belief on the non-Mormon side that it had been the work of Indians and it took a while for the investigative mechanism to get moving.
The remote location, local resistance to talk and the Civil War all resulted in delayed indictments.
Even when indicted, some perps escaped prosecution by flight.
The Government chose not to prosecute some cases for reasons unclear to me. Maybe the reason was that jury bias would preclude conviction in any but the most heinous cases.
Even after Lee's prosecutions began, the fact that the initial 1875 trial jury was composed of eight Mormons and four non-Mormons most certainly affected the outcome which was a hung jury.
In Lee's 1876 trial, the jury was all Mormon and yet, even that particular all-Mormon jury convicted Lee.
Why did Lee stand out as a man that even an all-Mormon jury thought needed killing in spite of their natural tendency to give a fellow Mormon the benefit of the doubt?
Maybe it was because of the especially heinous episode of the teenaged sisters Rachel and Ruth Dunlap and what Lee did to them in spite of pleadings for mercy by the Paiute chief.
The people blamed the Indians because the Mormon church said it was the Indians.
The murderers were mostly Mormon. 50+. All 120 were killed within 10 minutes. One man can’t do that.
I think having the LDS church control the memorial site is like if a local mosque in NYC were in control of ground zero. The LDS church won’t even allow crosses on the site.
I don’t think that was the point, it was would you to not be suspicious, lets not assign things he did not say, Sherman Logan
Interesting.
as for me I would not give bias people access!
Why berate those for not being foolish!
let thet devil fine his own food!
Hey, Delphi ~~ Whether or not you want to accept my personal family history is your choice. But stop lecturing me on getting a grip. I have a right on this forum to express myself.
So what were my great grandparents supposed to do, tell every one of their children (six of them, some teenagers)to keep it a secret to their graves? That just doesn’t make sense within a family!
And my clear memories of my grandmother telling me what happened to her and her family are to be discarded as a lie?
Elements within the Mormon hierarchy tried to kill my great grandfather three times because he refused to take a second wife.
I’m sorry if it has offended you, but, there I’ve said it again.
Have you seen the movie?
Were there fanatics among those who ran the Salem Witch Trials or the Inquisition or the Crusades? Or the Holocaust? No shortage of them. Organized religion has been used to justify most of the organized killing in our human history. It's an inescapable fact, especially if you consider the Nazis and communists as cults led by secular gods. When your god inspires you to murder someone who worships god in a different way or under another name, you're barking up the wrong god.
"The mob kept on firing at the shop until they thought all within were killed; then they went about the place killing all they could find alive, and robbing the houses of everything they could carry off. They even stripped the dead and dying of their clothes. They went into the blacksmith shop for this purpose, and there they saw dead men lying in piles, and wounded men groaning in pain, while pools of blood stood on the floor.
"A little ten year old boy named Sardius Smith had crawled under the bellows, trying to hide from the wicked mobbers; but one of them saw him and dragged him out. Then putting the muzzle of his gun to the boy's head he killed him instantly. Sardius' little brother, Alma, seven years old had a great hole shot in his hip; but he lay still, fearing that if he moved they would shoot him again. Another boy by the name of Charles Merrick was discovered. He pleaded with the mobbers not to kill him: "I am an American boy," he said "O! don't kill me!" The mobber heeded not, but blew out his brains.
"Thomas McBride, an old, gray-haired man who had fought in the Revolutionary War under Washington, gave up his gun to a mobber, and then pleaded for his life. The cruel mobber took the gun and shot the old man dead, and then another mobber cut him to pieces with an old corn cutter."
Thomas McBride was my great-great-great grandfather.
Is that an italian "moron?"
Since you mentioned "a demon named Moroni," somebody has suggested his original assignment was "spirit of the air over Rome" and his job was to set up various religious headquarters on earth that would divert attention from the living Christians on earth being the true temple of God. (No wonder LDS temples have been built in direct contradistinction to the New Testament temple...and yet LDS purports to be a "restoration?")
What? You've haven't heard of the original "single bullet theory?"
Sounds pretty bad, if that cult or whatever group it is runs a candidate for president, I am going to vote against him.
OK, the word "tragedy" is best reserved for things like accidents with multiple victims or young victims (the Titanic was a "tragedy"); weather-related deaths like tornadoes. The very definition of "tragic" is linked to "disaster" and words like "sad" are assigned within the definition of "tragedy."
It's not that this description is totally off base, it just that it deliberately steers clear of the social justice indignation that such a massacre would otherwise vividly highlight, and implies that there were only "victims" and no "perpetrators"--at least none with malicious intent.
In the same way, abortion is not simply a tragedy, but stark murder; and a murder of conpsiracy at that. This, too, was a mass murder involving conspiracy.
You forgot the real tear jerker line....”Nits make lice.”
Never leave that line out, it kills your story.
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