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To: jwalsh07; TigersEye
The Dr. can only do science on what he can observe and from my limited breadth of knowledge observing things outside of our universe is currently a no go.

Suppose...

...then who would be the only ones to be viewing "miraculous" conditions that allow them to survive?

Us.


In other words, the only way to the observer of a hospitable universe--is to be within a hospitable universe. Therefore, any observer will perceive his universe to be "miraculously" suited.

252 posted on 07/30/2007 11:00:02 PM PDT by Gondring (I'll give up my right to die when hell freezes over my dead body!)
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To: Gondring
Suppose...there have been 5,324,566,938,333,264,199,512,682,399,013,410,927 times...In other words, the only way to the observer of a hospitable universe--is to be within a hospitable universe.

An interesting supposition. Have you noticed that the vast majority of the one particular universe we have observed does not contain observers? The fraction of the universe that appears capable of such a marvel is incredibly small. Why would we expect that a typical universe would produce any observer at all?

What I find fascinating is the insight that thinking in such terms can give us into the concept of an "observer". For we do not really understand how an "observer" can exist in our own universe. We simply know that we are observers. Certainly we can pretend that we are brains. But that is no more compelling then saying that a rock could be an observer. Although the brain can process information and react to its environment more efficaciously then a rock. It is ultimately just a chemical process that does stuff -- which is also true for the rock (which is made of chemicals, and does much less much more slowly, and reacts to its environment more simply). We can claim it somehow creates an illusion of consciousness, but we can't say who the observer of this illusion would be.

then who would be the only ones to be viewing "miraculous" conditions that allow them to survive?

Exactly. We wouldn't necessarily expect anyone.

255 posted on 07/31/2007 2:12:55 AM PDT by AndyTheBear (Disastrous social experimentation is the opiate of elitist snobs.)
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To: Gondring
In other words, the only way to the observer of a hospitable universe--is to be within a hospitable universe. Therefore, any observer will perceive his universe to be "miraculously" suited.

Disregarding your non scientific suppositions, so what?

The fact remains that miniscule changes in diverse physical parameters would disllow carbon life forms in the one and only universe we can speak about with some small amount of authority. That is the Dr's claim and it is true. How you feel about it is up to you.

281 posted on 07/31/2007 10:35:38 AM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: Gondring
In other words, the only way to the observer of a hospitable universe--is to be within a hospitable universe. Therefore, any observer will perceive his universe to be "miraculously" suited.

Quite so and your post well supports my position that Dr. Townes exceeds his ability to rationally postulate what constitutes a hospitable universe. He makes a speculation so lacking in observable evidences that either confirm or deny the vast possibilities it encompasses that it isn't even useful as a raw hypothesis. It is a pile of assumptions and that isn't science it's mental masturbation. Fodder for Sci Fi at best.

287 posted on 07/31/2007 12:33:24 PM PDT by TigersEye (When reason is your enemy everything becomes your stumbling block.)
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