~”Truly the best answer I can give. I do not know that
the guy is a Christian. God does.”~
Fair enough. I also ascribe to ultimate justice. But, then, we agree that a profession of faith is not enough; one needs real faith, and real faith causes good works.
At this point, I am left scratching my head. What is so different about our positions? You have accepted Christ as your Savior and accepted His grace, and your faith is borne out by good works. I have accepted Christ as my Savior and accepted His grace, and my faith is borne out by good works, as best I can, in any case.
The only difference between us, then, is that I think God holds us to His commandments to perform good works, and that if we don’t make an honest effort to do so, grace is withdrawn.
I cannot think that this is an offensive position to you, particularly as it only serves to incentivize me to try to be a better person; so why do we continue to argue about it?
Mormon friend, if it is up to you or me to be good enough so that God doesn't withdraw His Grace (we're speaking of the Grace which Saves the immortal soul of a man/woman), the accuser of the brethren will steal your salvation and make it God's fault because He has promised that if you will bow your head and acknowledge His Grace to you, HE WILL SAVE YOU by the application of His faith in His Grace toward you ... and your profession will be counted for you righteousness you could never achieve and He will never leave you or forsake you once you confess Him.
At my age, I can testify truly to you from what I have witnessed that when a man bows his knee to Jesus, there is no way God will allow that man or woman to become a filthy family member for the rest of their life; He is good to His word ... He is the One Doing the Works and His greatest work is the transforming of a you or me. Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God. Be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind ... let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus.
Contending over works v faith using extraordinary examples profits little. Testifying to the Saving Grace of our Lord Jesus Christ profiteth much and is the power of the Holy Spirit to bring the heart to repentance and salvation in Him. For it is HE that is in you, to will and to do of His good pleasure.
But this is NOT the statement that is endorsed by headquarters!
And THAT one is what is 'offensive'.
“At this point, I am left scratching my head. What is so different about our positions? You have accepted Christ as your Savior and accepted His grace, and your faith is borne out by good works. I have accepted Christ as my Savior and accepted His grace, and my faith is borne out by good works, as best I can, in any case.”
Tant, friend, after all these months of interaction, I
believe you must know the answer to this question. Let me
sketch out some crucial differences between Biblical
Christianity and mormonism...
1. Different God - your was created. Was a man. Now is a god.
Biblical God was always God. Never a man.
1b. Different God - Biblical Christianity is MONOTHEISTIC -
and believes in only ONE God. Mormonism believes there are
many gods - perhaps billions or trillions. Polytheism.
2. Different Jesus - Biblical Christianity teaches the Savior
was God in eternity past - never having been created -
and after his birth to Mary, fully God and fully man. Mormonism
teaches Jesus was a created spirit and not always God.
3. Different Gospel - Biblical Christianity teaches that
the Gospel is Christ’s completed work on the cross that
is a gift to those who exercise believing faith. Mormonism
teaches that you must do good works before you can apprehend
grace.
4. Different Heaven - Biblical Christianity teaches that to
die (for a Believer) is to be in the presence of God for
eternity. Mormonism has three layers of heaven, God (the man)
only being in the top level, which is accessed by works
and man made rituals.
5. I could go on, because the only thing Christianity has in
common with mormonism is the name Jesus Christ... and
mormonism has changed that, as noted above. I’ll stop here.
1b. Different God
“The only difference between us, then, is that I think God holds us to His commandments to perform good works, and that if we don’t make an honest effort to do so, grace is withdrawn.”
Our salvation as believers does not rest on our own ability
to cling to it. It rests fully on the Grace and Completed
Work of Christ. All our sins and failings were in the future
when He died for them.
“I cannot think that this is an offensive position to you, particularly as it only serves to incentivize me to try to be a better person; so why do we continue to argue about it?”
You do not offend me. You (mormonism) distort the Gospel
and the truth of God. This is both heresy and blasphemy.
It leads others astray from the grace of God and from
salvation.
best,
ampu