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a very interesting column that made me see Chris. in a very different light....a human light, minus the intellectual elite aura that he tries to armor himself with
1 posted on 06/02/2007 8:59:05 PM PDT by rface
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To: rface

Yeah Christopher Hitchens is a REAL class act,NOT !!!


2 posted on 06/02/2007 9:04:19 PM PDT by Obie Wan
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To: rface

“I have no brother...”


3 posted on 06/02/2007 9:10:36 PM PDT by weegee (Libs want us to learn to live with terrorism, but if a gun is used they want to rewrite the Const.)
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To: rface

It was interesting to see/hear Christopher Hitchens today on BookTV.
And that for an atheist, he falls back on scripture when is trying to
make a point in a public forum

He used a passage from the book of Job when making a cautionary note
about the sometimes adversarial nature of writing book reviews:

To wit:
Job 31:35
35 Oh that one would hear me! behold, my desire is, that the Almighty
would answer me, and that mine adversary had written a book.


4 posted on 06/02/2007 9:10:52 PM PDT by VOA
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To: rface

ping


5 posted on 06/02/2007 9:17:18 PM PDT by Richard from IL
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To: rface

Satan's greatest trick was convincing people that he doesn't exist !!

6 posted on 06/02/2007 9:17:32 PM PDT by airborne (Satan's greatest trick was convincing people that he doesn't exist !!)
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To: rface
Rather more recently I have realised the great warning against human arrogance that is contained in it, the serpent’s silky promise that if we reject the supposedly foolish, trivial restrictions imposed on us by an interfering, jealous nuisance of a God, then we shall be liberated. As the serpent promises: "Ye shall be as gods." These may be the most important words in the whole Bible. Take the enticing satanic advice, and you arrive, quite quickly, at revolutionary terror, at the invention of the atom bomb, at the torture chamber and the building of concentration camps for those unteachable morons who do not share your vision of a just world.

Love this quote.

7 posted on 06/02/2007 9:20:50 PM PDT by denydenydeny (Expel the priest and you don't inaugurate the age of reason, you get the witch doctor--Paul Johnson)
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To: rface
Like everything Christopher writes, it is often elegant, frequently witty and never stupid or boring.

Brother is being kind, ironic, or can't have read much of his stuff, which is often like schoolyard taunts, usually very verbal, though not always.

Maybe this is a clue:
Christopher describes how at the age of nine he concluded that his teacher’s claim that the world must be designed was wrong. "I simply knew, almost as if I had privileged access to a higher authority, that my teacher had managed to get everything wrong."

Can't get past his own "brilliance" at age 9 ?
8 posted on 06/02/2007 9:23:56 PM PDT by caveat emptor
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To: rface
That was an interesting article. It’s funny how the Socialist atheist brother supports Bush and his brother, a sincere believer in God and a right-winger obviously believes Bush is a dope. People can reach conclusions for a lot of different reasons.
9 posted on 06/02/2007 9:24:12 PM PDT by elhombrelibre (Al Qaeda knows Iraq's strategic value, yet the Democrats work day and night for our defeat there.)
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To: rface
From the article: "He (Christopher) even suggests that the atheist Soviet tyranny was itself a form of religion".

Well, there can be little doubt that when Stalin destroyed the churches and exiled or executed the priests, that he portrayed himself and the State as all the religion anyone needed.

Peter concludes with "If you do not worship God, you end up worshiping power, whether it is Kim Jong Il, Leon Trotsky or the military might of George W. Bush. In which case, God help you".

This is basically in agreement with Christopher's statement about Soviet Russia. In any case, Christopher is a leftist, and I am surprised so many freepers find him interesting. The only thing he as ever agreed on with the right is the war and the fact that B.J. Clinton was a loser.

10 posted on 06/02/2007 9:27:53 PM PDT by Sans-Culotte
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To: rface
Peter's book, the Abolition of Britain, is a must read.
11 posted on 06/02/2007 9:28:08 PM PDT by curiosity
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To: rface
Yeah, I have a brother who's a pain in the rear sometimes, too. Sometimes, it seems like that's mostly what little brothers are for.
13 posted on 06/02/2007 9:45:43 PM PDT by irv
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To: rface

btt


16 posted on 06/02/2007 9:51:18 PM PDT by Cacique (quos Deus vult perdere, prius dementat ( Islamia Delenda Est ))
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To: rface

Bump...


20 posted on 06/02/2007 10:08:02 PM PDT by Intolerant in NJ
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To: rface
At the end of the article is a poll question - "Which Hitchens do you agree with?" I don't agree with either one. Peter is honest about his uncertainty, which I suppose is a virtue, and Christopher is, I think, dishonest about his certainty. The latter is, in my opinion, far more interesting.

Certainly history is full of idiots who do idiocies in the name of religion. These are so easy to enumerate that it is scarcely worth the effort. It isn't a disproof of religion to recognize that men sin; it's one of the central tenets of Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, Zoroastrianism, and a host of others with which I am less familiar. Atheists sin as well. We'd better get used to the idea that human beings are works in progress at the very best of times.

It is the basis of that progress that turns out to be the function of religion. I am unconvinced that atheism isn't nihilism when all is said and done although I treasure my atheist friends. I can wish nothing better for them, as for Christopher, that they be open to the touch of the ineluctable presence of God and that they come to learn that human reason is not the only source of understanding. An atheist by the name of C.S. Lewis did.

On the issue of Peter's disbelief that the invasion of Iraq could result in a better world I am much more aligned with his brother in an emphatic "yes, it did precisely that." It is here that Christopher shows what I suspect to be an underlying ethical if not spiritual development - his insistence that Iraq constituted a difficult but beneficial effort is an opinion firmly based on morality (a rather difficult position for a true atheist to explain although Lord knows Hitch tries it); that is, that effort followed the tenets of freedom, human rights, and the opposition of oppression that his Left claims but does not follow, that Peter acknowledges but does not appear to claim. Here we have IMHO, a clear-eyed and even defiant appreciation for the truth on Christopher's part that Peter does not share.

On the other hand, Peter is certainly correct about Christopher's tendency to equate religion with its abusers and ignore the rest. That is one of the artifices of rhetoric, not of truth, and Christopher is, after all, a brilliant rhetorician. I'm guessing he's also smart enough to know the difference.

I may be entirely wrong about this but it strikes me that Christopher's latest book is a last desperate effort of a formidable intellect to keep the fires of his disbelief alive. If he's lucky it will not succeed. I'll say a prayer to that effect - it'd piss him off.

21 posted on 06/02/2007 10:11:59 PM PDT by Billthedrill
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To: rface
He even suggests that the atheist Soviet tyranny was itself a form of religion.

It was. A religious belief that the state is the highest authority and always knows best, and it was required that everyone adopt that religion. There are places like Japan and Sweden and Norway and such that are irreligious, but they aren't tyrannies. I am tired of Christians suggesting that atheism is bad because of the Soviet Union or Communist China. Those places were societies that happened to be atheistic, not atheistic societies (as some ideal of it). Atheism and liberty are not at all incompatible, and, in fact, go together more than religion and liberty.

The Bible is an R-rated book. The idea that it is appropriate for establishing morality for a society is like saying the same for The Texas Chainsaw Massacre movie. Christians like to cherry pick things they can twist into niceties by God and ignore everything else, because religion is all about making the believer feel good. It's opium.

22 posted on 06/02/2007 10:14:43 PM PDT by GraniteStateConservative (...He had committed no crime against America so I did not bring him here...-- Worst.President.Ever.)
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To: rface

Your brother sucks Pete. Why don’t you do us a favor and kick his ass...
http://www.viralvideochart.com/youtube/christopher_hitchens_on_the_death_of_jerry_falwellcnn_360?id=YkAPaEMwyKU


23 posted on 06/02/2007 10:15:27 PM PDT by PGalt
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To: rface

Later read.


25 posted on 06/02/2007 10:18:03 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Only those who thirst for the truth will know the truth.)
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To: rface

Note the extreme difference in mien.

Peter’s face is open, looks sincere, a bit peaceful with some happiness visible.

Christopher’s is sort of sullen, angry, more miserable and unhealthy looking.


26 posted on 06/02/2007 10:19:43 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Only those who thirst for the truth will know the truth.)
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To: rface

Hey Christopher Hitchens...”Great is the Lord, and greatly to be praised. And His greatness is unsearchable”. Psalm 145:3

PS. The name ‘Christopher means “Christ bearer”. Hopefully you will see the Light before it’s lights out on you!


29 posted on 06/02/2007 10:29:30 PM PDT by tflabo (<p>)
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To: rface
Kudos to Peter for his review. I have always liked him. I am grateful to both 'Hitchens' for their thoughtful analysis of Life. . .and for their talents in communcating their views.

Christopher just got a huge; albeit 'not unkind' poke in the ribs from his brother Peter. Perhaps it will move Christopher to a more enlightened position on 'religion' per se; as might other criticisms offered. . .though I imagine he has heard a great many, while confirmed in his atheism. So, perhaps not. . .

. . .and while I am not sure he would admit an error in any of his atheistic premises - if he should decide he made one - Christopher's intellectual honesty has me believing he probably would; if only eventually.

38 posted on 06/03/2007 12:12:36 AM PDT by cricket (If you want to lose a mile; give a Lib an inch. . .)
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