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1 posted on 05/18/2007 10:29:44 AM PDT by NormsRevenge
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SOOoooo.. when we run out of aluminum? What then? :-}

A worker walks between stacks of high purity aluminum ingots at the RUSAL aluminum smelter in the Siberian city of Krasnoyarsk April 4, 2007. Pellets made out of aluminum and gallium can produce pure hydrogen when water is poured on them, offering a possible alternative to gasoline-powered engines, U.S. scientists say. (Ilya Naymushin/Reuters)


2 posted on 05/18/2007 10:31:35 AM PDT by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi ... For want of a few good men, a nation was lost.)
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To: NormsRevenge
There was a similar article on this yesterday... I find it an interesting concept. Here's what I see as the advantages/disadvantages:

Pro

Con
3 posted on 05/18/2007 10:34:49 AM PDT by kevkrom ("Government is too important to leave up to the government" - Fred Dalton Thompsn)
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To: NormsRevenge

Discussed here

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1835011/posts


5 posted on 05/18/2007 10:41:39 AM PDT by Uncledave
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To: NormsRevenge

It’s about time we wean ourselves off of aluminum. We must seek alternatives.


8 posted on 05/18/2007 10:45:41 AM PDT by macamadamia ("Forget it Jake. It's Nanny Town.")
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To: NormsRevenge
So in a pinch you can pee in the gas tank to get a few more miles.
10 posted on 05/18/2007 10:47:59 AM PDT by NonValueAdded (Fred Thompson in 2008 - there is no doubt about it!)
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To: NormsRevenge

Gallium is $1000 a pound.


11 posted on 05/18/2007 10:48:39 AM PDT by RightWhale (Repeal the Treaty)
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To: NormsRevenge

And in the UK,

will it be AlYuminium?


14 posted on 05/18/2007 10:51:39 AM PDT by MrB (You can't reason people out of a position that they didn't use reason to get into in the first place)
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To: NormsRevenge
the cost of making the hydrogen fuel is about $3 a gallon, about the same as the average price for a gallon of gas in the United States.

This process releases hydrogen gas. You can't drive far on a gallon of hydrogen gas. If they are talking about the equivalent of a gallon of liquid hydrogen, that's a different story. The author needs to clarify (as usual).

15 posted on 05/18/2007 10:51:58 AM PDT by Right Wing Assault ("..this administration is planning a 'Right Wing Assault' on values and ideals.." - John Kerry)
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To: NormsRevenge; SunkenCiv

Hydrogen is a pipe dream. Hydrocarbons are hundreds of times more efficient. There will be one exception. There are a few technologies in the pipe that will allow us to passively store cryogenic liquids with no boil-off. That will change the outlook quite a bit.

I will say that gallium-aluminium catalyzed water decomposition is a rather interesting technology. Without Google or Wiki I imagine that the reactions would be something like:

6H2O + 2Ga + 2Al -> 6H2 + Ga2O3 + Al2O3

Problem will be when you want to regenerate the catalyst. It would be much better to find a catalyst for this reaction that you can regenerate in situ. That would be nice. Good luck.

I imagine that this would be better served at a fuel station. Pump water into a holding tank with gallium-aluminium pellets, generate hydrogen gas and then compress it to liquid form. Deliver the liquid directly to the customer, who then stores it just like gasoline. The passive insulation technologies I mentioned earlier will allow that to happen.

I still say that hydrogen is not the answer. We will be on electric vehicles before there is a “hydrogen economy.” And even then, combustion engines will be around for a long time. Things such as airplanes, power plants, they all use combustion engines. You can eliminate that by using Nuclear power. But then you still have airplanes, and I imagine unless we have some breakthrough technology, they will be running on hydrocarbons for a long time to come.


16 posted on 05/18/2007 10:52:38 AM PDT by AntiKev ("No damage. The world's still turning isn't it?" - Stereo Goes Stellar - Blow Me A Holloway)
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To: NormsRevenge
More practical is to use natural gas. The only byproduct
from the tailpipe is water vapor. I understand that any car can be converted to use it, and still use gasoline with the flip of a switch.
It is becoming quite popular here in Slovakia and the cost is half that of Gasoline at a gas station. If you have your own filling equipment the cost is about a quarter of the cost of gasoline.
The cars have about a 400 KM range with a reserve tank of normal gasoline to give an extra 200 KM.
The problem is that there are few stations offering natural gas.
19 posted on 05/18/2007 10:54:25 AM PDT by AlexW (Reporting from Bratislava, Slovakia)
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To: NormsRevenge

If you want to run your car on aluminum, why not do it with a mechanically recargable battery. You would get nearly 100% of the electrical energy stored in the metal. PEM fuel cells are less than 50% efficient and you would lose even more energy in the chemical process to release hydrogen. You also would have much less complexity and expense.

There have been mechanically recargable marine batteries for about 40 years.

People are just grabbing at straws trying to figure out how to make a hydrogen car.


34 posted on 05/18/2007 11:04:40 AM PDT by dangerdoc (dangerdoc (not actually dangerous any more))
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To: NormsRevenge
Apparently some people think that Aluminum comes from the Aluminum fairy, and have no idea how it is produced. Clue: A large amount of electricity is applied to molten refined Bauxite, which contains Aluminum oxide ore. It is a very energy intensive process. Even re-smelting recycled Aluminum takes considerable energy.

And Gallium is a toxic substance, if I remember correctly.

38 posted on 05/18/2007 11:13:16 AM PDT by anymouse
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To: NormsRevenge

How does the car perform in winter when the water in the tank is frozen?

Also, would you have to manufacture expansion joints in the tank to allow for the ice to expand and prevent the fuel tank from rupturing?


42 posted on 05/18/2007 11:16:58 AM PDT by Chewbacca (Vote Ron Paul for President in 2008!!!!!! The best man for the job!)
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To: NormsRevenge
“...the cost of making the hydrogen fuel is about $3 a gallon, about the same as the average price for a gallon of gas in the United States.”

What about the other costs?* It appears that they haven’t factored in the costs of taxes, and transporting, and retailing the hydrogen fuel. If they can get the cost per mile driven to match that of gasoline — then this could be one more useful alternative.

(*Assuming that they meant that the hydrogen would have the energy equivalent of a gallon of gas.)

47 posted on 05/18/2007 11:20:25 AM PDT by USFRIENDINVICTORIA
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To: NormsRevenge

“Hydrogen is seen as the ultimate in clean fuels, especially for powering cars, because it emits only water when burned.”

And when it burns, boy does it burn!


48 posted on 05/18/2007 11:20:46 AM PDT by the OlLine Rebel (Common sense is an uncommon virtue.)
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To: NormsRevenge

If you take calcium and pour water on it you get hydrogen and calcium hydroxide. I should know. In an unsupervised high school chemistry experiment I used this reaction to create a hydrogen torch. It came to an unfortunate end when a stopper popped out of a flask and sprayed me with said calcium hydroxide.

Why not calcium since it doesn’t require gallium?


55 posted on 05/18/2007 12:01:47 PM PDT by Locomotive Breath
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To: NormsRevenge

But besides the cost of making these pellets, how much energy from other sources is required to make them? Is there a net gain in energy or a loss?


60 posted on 05/18/2007 1:37:41 PM PDT by Sender ("America is at that awkward stage..." - Claire Wolfe)
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