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To: kabar
Well they have the same problem we have. We went to sleep in the 1990s. I mean HEY, History was over and we won right? All the talking heads were saying it. So we let a 12 million person force disintegrate into a....ready for this

1.4 million active duty force. When I read that the other day I was just stunned.

In 1992 we took a marvelous instrument of war and simply threw it in the trash yet again as soon as we thought the war was over! So did all of Europe.

And we are paying the price for that stupidity now. It takes years and lots and lots of $$$ to build up a seriously professional volunteer force.

And it is going to be really a lot tougher this time. The Clintonites were really very clever. By pushing so much of the force into NG and Reserve status, they created a political clientele, outside the Military, who are NOT going to ever give up those fat federal dollars flowing into their states for NG troops while at the same time NEVER want those troops actually USED by the Feds! We are going to have to rebuild a large active duty force while fighting the political Establishment tooth and nail for every single body and dollar.

263 posted on 05/13/2007 10:19:27 AM PDT by MNJohnnie (If you will try being smarter, I will try being nicer.)
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To: MNJohnnie

This I can agree with....I was thinking that today myself.


273 posted on 05/13/2007 10:59:06 AM PDT by mtnwmn (mtnwmn)
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To: MNJohnnie
In 1992 we took a marvelous instrument of war and simply threw it in the trash yet again as soon as we thought the war was over! So did all of Europe.

It was part of the "Peace Dividend" with the fall of the Soviet Union. Europe has had to choose between guns and butter and has decided upon butter. With declining, aging populations trying to support generous social welfare systems, the Europeans don't have money for both, which is why they are spending less and less on defense. The British Navy will be down to 25 capital ships. Europe has been fortunate that the US has provided the security umbrella for them, but it has warped their view of the real world.

The US is heading down the same road as our population ages and the entitlement programs consume more and more of our budget. Social Security pays more than $450 billion in benefits each year. If nothing is done, by 2060, the combination of Social Security and Medicare will account for more than 71 percent of the federal budget. By 2030, there will be 70 million Americans of retirement age--twice as many as today.

And it is going to be really a lot tougher this time. The Clintonites were really very clever. By pushing so much of the force into NG and Reserve status, they created a political clientele, outside the Military, who are NOT going to ever give up those fat federal dollars flowing into their states for NG troops while at the same time NEVER want those troops actually USED by the Feds! We are going to have to rebuild a large active duty force while fighting the political Establishment tooth and nail for every single body and dollar..

I don't believe we will ever return to the active duty force strengths we had in the 1960s or the early 1990s. Some of it has to do with technology and force multipliers that give today's military far more firepower with less manpower. And a lot has to do with money and competing demands for it. The entitlement programs are on automatic pilot and will go belly up in 10 years if nothing is done. More than likely, there will be increased taxes and lower benefits to save failed systems rather than reform them. In 1950, there were 16 workers paying Social Security taxes for every retired person receiving benefits. Today there are 3.3. By 2030, there will be only 2.

Finally, the size of our force will also be affected by the perceived threat and what is needed to counter it. The US already spends more on defense than almost the rest of the world combined. What size military do we need? Or can afford? Under our budget system, defense spending is considered to be a discretionary item.

278 posted on 05/13/2007 11:03:33 AM PDT by kabar
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To: MNJohnnie
Wow I had no idea we had gone from 12 million to 1.4,unreal,we desperately need to rebuild and fast.
no wonder we are at risk all the time.
291 posted on 05/13/2007 12:12:15 PM PDT by rodguy911 (Support The New media, Ticket the Drive-bys, --America-The land of the Free because of the Brave-)
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To: MNJohnnie

WOW...what a great post, Johnnie.

I had read an article a few weeks ago (sorry, can’t remember where)...about the way the military had been structured in the last 15 years or so....saying that it was on purpose to make the military more “national guard”...

for use “when necessary”.

AH...but not if you are Pres. Bush, you can’t “use them when necessary”....

SO...glad to read your post, much better than I could have explained it.

You add the lack of humint under the Clintonistas and Carter...and you have the whole other problem of not enough spooks in the areas of the world that are necessary for the kind of enemy we have now.


303 posted on 05/13/2007 12:47:29 PM PDT by Txsleuth
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To: MNJohnnie

I agree with all you said except the number of military. When I came in in 1976 we were at 3 million active and when I left in 1998 we were at 1.4 million. Where did you come up with the 12 million?


331 posted on 05/13/2007 3:25:02 PM PDT by Alas Babylon!
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