They Shoot Mormons, Don't They? Religious Bigotry, alive and well today

Saundra Duffy

[DanielLongo]

yes, in three separate states.

[MHGinTN]

All three 'separate' states (they really are not the only possible states, scientifically, but that's grist for another discussion) are still manifestations of H₂O, not H₂SO₄, not CO₂

[DanielLongo]

I can't believe you guys flogged this thread to 2500 posts.

I'm just trying to get Californian to tell me what church he goes to. LOL.

[FastCoyote]

“Never claimed infallible, just a prophet.”

If he is fallible, especially in translating the BOM, then your religion is toast.

[DanielLongo]

Yes, and they are all God. But they are three different personages. Are we disagreeing here?
Or are you saying that Jesus prays to himself?

[MHGinTN]

Have a pleasant evening contending.

[DanielLongo]

I don’t believe tantiboh said he was fallible in translating the Book of Mormon. Where did you read that? Moses was chastened by the Lord for messing up from time to time. Does that mean he was not a prophet? Hardly.

[DanielLongo]

Cheers.

[DelphiUser]

Sure you knew that I knew that you knew that I knew that you would have a “take the wind out of my joke” come back like that.

You might be dense but not that dense.

Lets' leave my mass as far out of this as we can, just because I have my own satelites is no reason to stare!

[Colofornian]

"no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith" Could you please include the entire paragraph. It is quite short.

Here goes:

"If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth when he said that he stood in the presence of angels sent from the Lord, and obtained keys of authority, and the commandment to organize the Church of Jesus Christ once again once again on the earth, then this knowledge is of the most vital importance to the entire world. No man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the Kingdom of God." (Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1)

The above also counters Christ's own words: "...I [Jesus Christ, not some "organizer" named Joe Smith] will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." (Matt 16:18)

Whatever church Jesus Christ said he was building there, it wasn't going to be a shabby structure, which the LDS directly accuse Jesus of building. It wasn't going to "go to pot" in 300+ years, like the LDS commonly accuse Jesus of doing. In fact, the force of the future tense from this passage depicts a mighty, strong church--and one so sustained by an Almighty, strong Christ. In fact, Rev. 20:8-9 says this Church will never be overthrown.

Furthermore, LDS label Paul as a false prophet when Paul told the Ephesians: "Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.." (Eph. 3:21)

Any Lds here care to point out exactly how it is that Paul falsely prophesied by mentioning which "age" that the church failed to bring glory to God? How can there "be glory in the church...throughout all ages" if it's a total apostasy? Exactly what glory was brought to God by the church in the years 400 to 1800 if the current writers defaming the entire Christian church are right?

Furthermore, LDS label the Holy Spirit a liar when the Spirit prophesied that the apostasy would be partial: "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, thaqt in the latter times some shall depart from the faith..." (1 Tim. 4:1)

Why is that the Holy Spirit speaks so "expressly" about this matter, yet LDS are so hostile to what He has to say?

[tantiboh]

“Will all the Mormons who made lists of names to call other churches while a student please respond to this post...”

I did. It went something like:
-Catholics
-Methodists
-Baptists
-Jews
-Anglicans
...

[colorcountry]

That the prophets of the Old Testament lived concurrently (that means at the same time).

God didn’t wait until the old one died to get a new one like the latter-day-saints do know.

Hebrews 1:1-2 has changed the way God spoke to us in the Old Testament.

1 In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.

[Colofornian]

I did. It went something like: -Catholics -Methodists -Baptists -Jews -Anglicans

That's because you're so considerate, Tanty.

Students hearing McConkie "lectures" when he was alive derived less honorable names upon gleaning his writings; other earlier general authority writings; and as I've already mentioned, the BoM & PoGP itself.

I guess it all depends what your primary filters are.

[DanielLongo]

"no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith"

I don't see that anywhere in the quote below. You made it look like a direct quote and were purposefully deceptive.

"If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth when he said that he stood in the presence of angels sent from the Lord, and obtained keys of authority, and the commandment to organize the Church of Jesus Christ once again once again on the earth, then this knowledge is of the most vital importance to the entire world. No man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the Kingdom of God." (Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1)

It says nothing about accepting Joseph Smith. It says If...then, "No man can reject that testimony", it says nothing about accepting Joseph Smith, as though he were the judge of the quick and dead.

[DanielLongo]

19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God. 20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us, 21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, aworld without end. Amen.

"Unto him be glory in the church"- "him that is able to do...according to the power that worketh in us"

"in the church by Christ Jesus" is a preposition which links to the object(noun), "him". The word "throughout" is the start of the second modifying preposition which in English also modifies "him" not "the church".

This was obviously not a strong subject for you. By the way, what is the name of that church again? LOL

2Peter chapter 3 15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

[Colofornian]

I don't see that anywhere in the quote below. You made it look like a direct quote and were purposefully deceptive....It says nothing about accepting Joseph Smith. It says If...then, "No man can reject that testimony", it says nothing about accepting Joseph Smith, as though he were the judge of the quick and dead.[DanielLongo]

You know, DL, you've lost your "witness" here when you inwardly judge folks ("purposefully deceptive") when you have no knowledge of what you are talking about.

I suggest, if you don't believe me, that you get ahold of some of the original writings of your prophets which your church makes readily available and read them yourself. They even compile writings by president for you to not have to rely on folks like me.

So I'll explain it to you so that then you can go check it out directly, and not label me as a deceiver. (Then you can apologize to me). If you look at JFS's book, vol. I, You will find the phrase "No Salvation Without Accepting Joseph Smith" is actually a sub-head that's in bold used by the prophet/author himself. I didn't make up the sub-head. (I wasn't around when he wrote it )

All you asked me was to include the following graph in full, which I dutifully did. (And I'll I got "rewarded" for in taking my time to serve you in this way was to be labeled a purposeful "deceiver.") Are you representative of folks of your faith? Is this how you treat inquirers to your faith?

Finally, please explain what is so damaging about Joseph Fielding Smith's phrase, "No Salvation Without Accepting Joseph Smith?" Could it be that what you find troubling, as I do, is that it serves as a direct substitution for Jesus Christ? as found in Acts 4:12: "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." (Acts 4:12)

[Netizen]

Cornelius was found acceptable to God prior to hearing the gospel and prior to baptism, so yes one can be saved without hearing the gospel. Noah, Daniel and Job are other examples.

God told us what to do.

[DanielLongo]

Hebrews 1:1-2 has changed the way God spoke to us in the Old Testament. 1 In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.

It appears He also chose to speak through Paul. Right? It doesn't say that "he has spoken to us exclusively by his Son..."

Neither did I say that God speaks to man through one person at a time. You have proffered a non sequitur. In fact I am grateful that along with the living prophet today, there are also apostles who serve and speak the words of the Living Christ.

[DanielLongo]

prior to death.

That is my question. Noah spoke with the God of Israel. Job spoke with the God of Israel.Daniel was visited by an angel and, according to the book of his name, knew a great deal about God. Again, these cannot be compared with some Chinese guy who is a Buddhist his whole life, but otherwise leads an honorable existence. Is he damned?

and as for Noah, Daniel, and Job, how does the following verse apply to them?

John 3: 5 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

[Netizen]

Jeremiah 17:10 I Jehovah do search the heart, try the reins, Even to give to each according to his way, According to the fruit of his doings.

And further on in Jeremiah 31
2 Thus saith the LORD, The people which were left of the sword found grace in the wilderness; even Israel, when I went to cause him to rest.

Interesting thing about the exile mentioned in Isaiah 27

8 In measure, when it shooteth forth, thou wilt debate with it: he stayeth his rough wind in the day of the east wind.
9 By this therefore shall the iniquity of Jacob be purged; and this is all the fruit to take away his sin; when he maketh all the stones of the altar as chalkstones that are beaten in sunder, the groves and images shall not stand up.

Their exile was their atonement and NO BLOOD WAS SHED.