Posted on 04/28/2007 1:13:14 PM PDT by lizol
Poland should also remove Soviet monuments - Katyn Committee
21:35 | 28/ 04/ 2007
WARSAW, April 28 (RIA Novosti) - The time has come to remove Soviet-era monuments in Poland, a Polish public organization said Saturday echoing the Estonian government's decision to remove the Bronze Soldier statue in central Tallinn.
The Katyn Committee which is made up of relatives of Polish officers, who were executed on the orders of the Soviet authorities in the village of Katyn near Smolensk in western Russia in 1940, said just like Estonia Poland "suffered from the Soviet occupation, while Soviet monuments have always been the symbol of slavery and lies, as well as Russian chauvinism."
"The Katyn Committee expresses solidarity with the sovereign government of Estonia and approves its decision to remove the Soviet monuments, sites of the 'Red' empire," the committee said in a statement Saturday. "We are indignant at Russian official statements threatening to cut off diplomatic ties with Estonia."
The committee said that Soviet monuments were used to popularize the idea of the Soviet Army as a liberator of nations. The organization said it was a shame that millions [of Polish zlotys] of taxpayers' money was still spent annually on the conservation and maintenance in Poland of 2,000 Soviet monuments.
In 1940, a few thousand Polish officers taken prisoner during the 1939 Soviet invasion of Poland were executed by NKVD officers, the forerunner for the KGB. The Soviet Union admitted the massacre in 1990.
I have two stories considering that topic... first is from my home town.
Near my flat there is a military academy. In front of the buliding there was standing an immobilized T-34 tank. Writing underneath said that it is a symbol of Polish-Soviet friendship. It was standing there since 1970’s or something.
Suddenly on the night of 16-17 september 1993 the tank disappeared. One day it was there, and the other it just disappeared, bang!!! and few tons of steel vanish!!!
17 th september 1993 is a historical date, that day last Russian troops left Poland, also on 17th of september 1939 Poland has been backstabbed by Soviet Union.
The second one is simple:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1782850/posts
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1703643/posts
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1704132/posts
>>This is exactly what those idiots in Tallinn started to do. I saw it on TV yesterday<<
Don’t believe everything you see... On my TV I saw Russian minority smash shop displays, burn cars, attacked police... that’s what I call idiotic, it’s also a matter of civilization how you handle having different opinion,
oh sorry, things like this happen in “civilized” France also, right?
(On TV there was nothing about digging out graves, they said that graves are near but they are not going to be moved and the Russian youth is protesting because Estonians are purging country from commie leftovers)
Those poor Ivans deserve to rest in peace, in their homeland. That they fell as invaders, bringing with them, deportations, torture, rape. murder, and in the case of the Baltics redistribution of property to Russians aka ethnic cleansing is an historical fact. Monuments to this monstrous crime should offend anyone claiming to be civilized. Berlin, thanks to the tremendous gifts of American blood and treasure, now safe and secure in the center of a resurected middle Europe seems willing to endure a few such monuments as the price of doing good business, and hopefully as a reminder of the price of its own crimes. In the east there is yet no such luxury.
Those Russian "soldiers" were usually boys between 16 - 21. You can not make them responsible for the crimes of Josef Stalin. To me it seems anyhow that you are trapped in your strange imagination of guilt. All are obviously somehow guilty to you except the Brits, the poor Poles or the Balts. You should know that the world is a littlebit more complicated.
Western Europe is (and was) that sucessfull after the war because we learned to make compromises and not to provoke without reason. If you (or the Balts) want to survive in the long term you should start to do the same. Estonia needs for its survival strong partners in the west. Germany, Finland and Sweden are nessecary as a market, the NATO is nessecary as a provider of security. De facto many of the small countries in eastern Europe hide behind their partners in the west while they provoke the Russians without any need. I do not know if you understand that we western Europeans do not want to be misused by freeloaders. We have interest in strong and stable relations with the Russians and we can/and will not give shelter to barraters forever.
You better ask the Americans if they want to fight a idiotic war around some old graves in Tallin.
Poland having monuments to fallen Soviet soldiers is no different than Belgium or France (or Poland) having monuments to fallen Nazi soldiers.
And the same applies to Estonia which was also a victim of Molotov-Ribbentrop.
You are correct. There is a very large Soviet War Memorial just inside what was West Berlin near the Reichstag Building, plus the large Soviet Cemetery in Teltow. The cemetery is located in what was East Berlin.
“Those Russian “soldiers” were usually boys between 16 - 21.”
The same someone could say about German soldiers and here any monument for those “defenders of western civilization” would have been crashed at first opportunity and If not then only to piss on It every day.
“All are obviously somehow guilty to you except the Brits, the poor Poles or the Balts. You should know that the world is a littlebit more complicated.”
No comments.
“Western Europe is (and was) that sucessfull after the war because we learned to make compromises and not to provoke without reason. If you (or the Balts) want to survive in the long term you should start to do the same. Estonia needs for its survival strong partners in the west. Germany, Finland and Sweden are nessecary as a market, the NATO is nessecary as a provider of security.”
You know what ? Not for everyone “energy” and “markets” are the most important things in the world. No so easy Andy. Some people wont let Russians move there “peacekeeping forces” to “protect the rights of minorities”. Anything like that will be the beginning of the WW3. And what you (or your fuhrer) think about that is not really so important.
I am not so sure. Do you really think that anybody important in the west will start WW3 just because some idiots in Estonia? Anyhow this could turn into a really funny litmus test of a totally overblown NATO. You should know that in this case NATO does not just fail against some irrelevant camel drivers in Afghanistan like in the moment. The Russians still have a quite impressive arsenal of conventional and non-conventional weapons and they are really motivated to defend their zone of influence.
NATO is a defensive alliance with many cracks and fissures. Such alliances work the better the fewer members they have. Until 1990 we had 16 member countries and a pronounced concept of the enemy. Today we have 26 members, some good friends in Moscow (with a "near-democracy") we are building pipelines with and a few people who seem to be totally addicted to the bloody past. No - most of the west does not share your personal view of the Russians. Of course there will be some heartbreaking cant if the Russians i.e. think about "saving" their minority in Estonia through a limited invasion, but you should not even think about a real slugfest between the bigger forces in Europe. Our politicians always have been extremely pragmatic (this includes the Americans). You Poles should know that best since this kind of pragmatism was paid by 6 million of your compatriots with their lives. Therefore you are well advised to think about the situation that you could end up in fighting out your WW3 alone with the Russkies. Have fun.
If someone wants protection, support and backing he has to reassure himself among his allies. As we saw in Iraq even the most powerful nation on this planet has to do so. There were many who did not follow although the administration in Washington could not imagine that this would happen. In this case (the graves of those soldiers in Tallin) I am quite sure that nobody sane among the decisive powers in Europe will even think about helping Estonia against the Russians. If you or your gouvernment want to die in heroic action against the Red Army you are of course free to do so. Nevertheless you should not expect too much compassion for such cretinism. At least you have a good chance to win the Darwin Award then.
Crystal-clear democrats. I know.
Sorry, but there is really no comparison between US liberators buried in Normandy and Red Army conquerors buried in Eastern Europe.
Tailgunner, you said that in such a polite and generous, unarguable and definitive manner. It needed to be done that way. Thank You.
“The Katyn Committee expresses solidarity with the sovereign government of Estonia and approves its decision to remove the Soviet monuments,....”
I’d like to show my solidarity as well, and encourage both all parties to remove the Soviet monuments ASAP. Let the Russians break off diplomatic ties! What benefit are they at present? Do not be bullied! Do not back down!
“There are still monuments to fallen Soviet soldiers in Germany and no talk of removing them.”
Probably haven’t gotten over Soviet oppression. Afraid that the master will return.
Wish someone would help us remove the Che Guevarra mural in a school here in Los Angeles.
If Lenin or any political figure, knock it down, if a military hero of the Great Patriotic War (ie Zhukov, etc), leave it up...
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.