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Giuliani doubters in for Rudy awakening
The Boston Herald ^ | 03/18/2007 | Deroy Murdock

Posted on 03/18/2007 1:31:23 AM PDT by JohnSheppard

The same Beltway experts who declared Sen. John McCain of Arizona the GOP front-runner, even as he under-polled fellow presidential contender Rudolph Giuliani, now parrot equally dodgy concepts. When Republicans meet “the real Rudy,” they will abandon New York’s former mayor like cattle fleeing a burning barn. Then, the wobbly Washington wisdom continues, Giuliani’s three marriages, and his less-than-solidly-right-wing views on gays, guns and gametes will torpedo his buoyant presidential hopes.

These seers now detect unhappiness with the GOP aspirants. They cite a recent Wall Street Journal/NBC News poll in which 26 percent of Republican primary voters were dissatisfied with Giuliani, McCain and former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney, among others. However, 56 percent called these choices satisfactory. This mirrors the 57 percent of conservative Republicans who preferred Giuliani, versus 31 percent for McCain. More broadly, Republicans backed Giuliani by 38 percent to McCain’s 24, former House Speaker Newt Gingrich’s 10, Romney’s 8, and 2 percent each for Kansas Sen. Sam Brownback and former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee.

But what if voters like Giuliani better upon understanding his pre-9/11 performance? Educating Republicans on his complete mayoral record - and soon - may be Giuliani’s best bet for extinguishing the lingering grumbling about his candidacy.

(Excerpt) Read more at news.bostonherald.com ...


TOPICS: Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: alreadyposted; anybodybutrudy; closethisthread; deroymurdock; duncanhunter; giuliani; gungrabber; infiltrators; insurgency; medialies; norudys; oldnews; rino; rudy; rudygasm; rudygiuliani; wasteofbandwidth
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To: tkathy
"A rudy presidency would be a huge victory for republicans who care about this country being destroyed."

Yeah, a huge victory for Stalinist who believe in ruling with absolute authority. Once Rudy does away the the 2nd-Amendment the people of this country will no longer be citizens, but subjects of his new Socialist Utopia.

Any politician who is against the 2nd-Amendment is an enemy of liberty and the people of America.
41 posted on 03/18/2007 6:12:09 AM PDT by MaDeuce (Do it to them, before they do it to you! (MaDeuce = John Browning's gift to freedom))
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To: MaDeuce

Yeah, a huge victory for Stalinist who believe in ruling with absolute authority. Once Rudy does away the the 2nd-Amendment the people of this country will no longer be citizens, but subjects of his new Socialist Utopia.


I have to disagree with you. Rudy seems to be more of a fascist than a marxist.


42 posted on 03/18/2007 6:14:42 AM PDT by freedomfiter2 (Duncan Hunter: pro-life, pro-2nd Amendment, pro-border control, pro-family)
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To: freedomfiter2

"I have to disagree with you. Rudy seems to be more of a fascist than a marxist."

Hummm, correction accepted. ;-)


43 posted on 03/18/2007 6:19:40 AM PDT by MaDeuce (Do it to them, before they do it to you! (MaDeuce = John Browning's gift to freedom))
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To: Halgr

Since I was here before you guys were, I'll let you leave whenever you want.


44 posted on 03/18/2007 6:21:59 AM PDT by LS (CNN is the Amtrak of News)
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To: freedomfiter2

You guys are ridiculous.

Giuliani is more conservative than most other Republicans on issues like school choice, poverty, and trade. On health care, for example, Giuliani insists that we need to have free market solutions.

This is not the agenda of Hillary Clinton. While Giuliani's positions on abortion and guns are bad, the overall good outweighs the bad. I'm going to thoroughly enjoy making the Dems talk about 911 every day throughout 2008.


45 posted on 03/18/2007 6:23:16 AM PDT by JHBowden (President Giuliani in 2008! Law and Order. Solid Judges. Free Markets. Killing Terrorists.)
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To: JohnSheppard

I finnaly figured it out ...

It's like that web site that tells you to vote for the worst on the American idol show.
All these folks are sitting back and laughing as rudy stays in the race.
But it's all in fun right ... come on everyone , lets VOTE FOR THE WORST .

What a hoot.
Go rudy.


46 posted on 03/18/2007 6:23:16 AM PDT by THEUPMAN (####### comment deleted by moderator)
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To: Nextrush
Good points. Yesterday I expressed it here as "Needed: A Conservative Dog-Whisperer."

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1802358/posts

Rush has said this many times: our side is looking for ANYONE who will step up and be a leader. Even if he only leads on the 30% of the things we agree on, if he beats the Dems and jerks their leash on those issues while ignoring the others, he will have the OVERWHELMING support of the conservative voters.

So far, Rudy has not done that satisfactorily, and Romney completely whiffed on the Ann Coulter thing. But mark my words on this: whoever establishes himself as a "lead dog" willing to fight the Dems on SOME issues---ANY issues---and make them submissive will get the all the support in the world, regardless of his positions on some or even many issues.

47 posted on 03/18/2007 6:26:23 AM PDT by LS (CNN is the Amtrak of News)
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To: JohnSheppard

Deroy Murdock: Rudy Giuliani's Monica Lewinski.


48 posted on 03/18/2007 6:28:23 AM PDT by EternalVigilance (Rudy wants to move the GOP to Guyana and create Utopia - Drink up everyone!)
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To: Russ
"Right now there is no candidate conservatives will rally around to the extent it will make a difference."

At this point that's true. But there is still time to see who will make it out of the gates into the forefront. Thompson could be that guy, or it could be one or two of the others running. Who knows, it could be someone who hasn't even announced yet. We still have plenty of time before we need to unite behind any one candidate. Once that candidate appears I'm sure most of us will unite behind him, unless it's Rudy, well, he'll probably have to write a good portion of the socons off. From what the RINOS on this forum have been saying, that's pretty much the plan anyway.
49 posted on 03/18/2007 6:31:26 AM PDT by dmw (Aren't you glad you use common sense, don't you wish everybody did?)
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To: ZULU
Wait a minute here; since when is being a "supply-sider" not a Republican credential? Must someone's republican/conservative views revolve exclusively around social issues only? I agree that Gulliani's views on abortion and gun control are non credentials...but to say he has no credentials is completely inaccurate.
50 posted on 03/18/2007 6:36:25 AM PDT by LowCountryJoe (I'm a Paleo-liberal: I believe in freedom; am socially independent and a borderline fiscal anarchist)
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To: tkathy
I'd rather lose to a liberal Democrat than lose to a liberal Republican. I will NOT vote for Rudy, in any election. At least with a liberal Democrat in office, their destruction of our national values wouldn't amount to a personal apostasy for my complicity in that election.

Indeed, when Democrats go about their efforts to bring our nation down, at least they bear the complete blame. I will not have the same results attributed to me and my vote.

I've already seen ENOUGH Supreme Cabal members bear Republican genesis and liberal rewriting of the Constitution. I will NOT see that again. I will not vote for it. I will not convince myself that Rudy will hold true to MY colors instead of his.

At least, Hillary will be more honest about her intent, even as she lies through her teeth about it. THAT's saying something.

If Rudy gets the nod, my vote goes to Tancredo or whatever third party candidate runs, or if none do, then the Libertarian candidate. Rudy supporters NEED to realize that Rudy WILL cost Republicans the election. When a sizeable percentage of your OWN party will not vote for YOUR man, then you have put forth a loser.

I'd rather see the other side win than see my side 'win' in title only. It's not about 'which side wins'. It's about which agenda leads. With a contest of Rudy vs. Hillary (or fill in your loser here), America's best agenda loses, no matter the outcome. I could NEVER support that.

You can cry all you won't that Rudy is better at least than Hillary. I don't see it. In fact, he's worse because he would tag the responsibility of the fallout of liberal socialism with MY label. NO way, no how. Not on my watch.

~faith,
Timothy.
51 posted on 03/18/2007 6:37:29 AM PDT by ziravan (winning the lotto one vote at a time.)
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To: freedomfiter2

Thankfully its a while till D Day.....and we all know that lots can happen between now and then......Hopefully we won't have to make a choice regarding Rudy

I'm still hopeful for Fred or Duncan....

But if it does come down to a Rudy-Hillary vote....in order to have a clear conscience I will write in Duncan or Newt or Fred....


52 posted on 03/18/2007 6:44:59 AM PDT by Halgr (Once a Marine, always a Marine - Semper Fi)
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To: tkathy
Actually, the one issue voters are the "anyone but Hillary/Obama" crowd.

I'm a one issue voter...one issue at a time which includes big government, RTBA, abortion, WOT, political correctness, CFR, entitlements and the list goes on and on and one. I'm a Conservative first and foremost. If the Republican party can't serve up a Republican candidate that is a conservative I'll either vote third party (if there is a candidate that is a conservative) or write myself in again as I did in 2004.

53 posted on 03/18/2007 6:46:11 AM PDT by politicalwit (Family values don't stop at the border...but Federal laws do.)
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To: JHBowden

Here is a list that will help in assesing the candidates. I know it's a surprise that this isn't a pro or anti-rudy list. Some of the emphasis on nuclear war may seem a little out of date but overall it's a good guide to go by.


On Jan. 10, 1963, Congressman Albert S. Herlong Jr. of Florida read a list of 45 Communist goals into the Congressional Record. The list was derived from researcher Cleon Skousen’s book “The Naked Communist.” These principles are well worth revisiting today in order to gain insights into the thinking and strategies of much of our so-called liberal elite.
1. U.S. should accept coexistence as the only alternative to atomic war.

2. U.S. should be willing to capitulate in preference to engaging in atomic war.



3. Develop the illusion that total disarmament by the U.S. would be a demonstration of "moral strength."

4. Permit free trade between all nations regardless of Communist affiliation and regardless of whether or not items could be used for war.


5. Extend long-term loans to Russia and Soviet satellites.

6. Provide American aid to all nations regardless of Communist domination.

7. Grant recognition of Red China and admission of Red China to the U.N.


8. Set up East and West Germany as separate states in spite of Khrushchev's promise in 1955 to settle the Germany question by free elections under supervision of the U.N.

9. Prolong the conferences to ban atomic tests because the U.S. has agreed to suspend tests as long as negotiations are in progress.

10. Allow all Soviet satellites individual representation in the U.N.

11. Promote the U.N. as the only hope for mankind. If its charter is rewritten, demand that it be set up as a one-world government with its own independent armed forces.

12. Resist any attempt to outlaw the Communist Party.

13. Do away with loyalty oaths.

14. Continue giving Russia access to the U.S. Patent Office.

15. Capture one or both of the political parties in the U.S.


16. Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions, by claiming their activities violate civil rights.


17. Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for Socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers associations. Put the party line in textbooks.

18. Gain control of all student newspapers.

19. Use student riots to foment public protests against programs or organizations that are under Communist attack.


20. Infiltrate the press. Get control of book review assignments, editorial writing, policy-making positions.

21. Gain control of key positions in radio, TV & motion pictures.

22. Continue discrediting American culture by degrading all form of artistic expression. An American Communist cell was told to "eliminate all good sculpture from parks and buildings," substituting shapeless, awkward and meaningless forms.

23. Control art critics and directors of art museums. " Our plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive, meaningless art."

24.Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them "censorship" and a violation of free speech and free press.

25. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio and TV.

26. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as "normal, natural and healthy."

This is the Gramscian agenda of the "long march through the institutions" spelled out explicitly: gradual takeover of the "means of communication" and then using those vehicles to debauch the culture and weaken the will of the individual to resist. Today those few who still have the courage to advocate public morality are denounced and viciously attacked. Most Americans are entirely unwitting regarding the motives behind this agenda.

27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with "social" religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity, which does not need a "religious crutch."


28. Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the grounds that it violates the principle of "separation of church and state"
Replacing belief in the creator with belief in the earthly man-controlled State.

29. Discredit the American Constitution by calling it inadequate, old fashioned, out of step with modern needs, a hindrance to cooperation between nations on a worldwide basis.
And replace our nation of "laws, not men" with royal decree emanating from appointed judges and executive orders. Replace elected officials with bureaucrats.

30. Discredit the American founding fathers. Present them as selfish aristocrats who had no concern for the "common man."

31. Belittle all forms of American culture and discourage the teaching of American history on the ground that it was only a minor part of "the big picture." Give more emphasis to Russian history since the Communists took over.


32. Support any socialist movement to give centralized control over any part of the culture – education, social agencies, welfare programs, mental health clinics, etc.
Public ownership of the means of production, the core principle of totalitarianism.

33. Eliminate all laws or procedures which interfere with the operation of the Communist apparatus.

34. Eliminate the House Committee on Un-American Activities.

35. Discredit and eventually dismantle the FBI.

36. Infiltrate and gain control of more unions.

37. Infiltrate and gain control of big business.


38. Transfer some of the powers of arrest from the police to social agencies. Treat all behavioral problems as psychiatric disorders which no one but psychiatrists can understand or treat.


39. Dominate the psychiatric profession and use mental health laws as a means of gaining coercive control over those who oppose communist goals.

40. Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce.


41. Emphasize the need to raise children away from the negative influence of parents. Attribute prejudices, mental blocks and retarding of children to suppressive influence of parents.


42. Create the impression that violence and insurrection are legitimate aspects of the American tradition; that students and special interest groups should rise up and make a "united force" to solve economic, political or social problems.


43. Overthrow all colonial governments before native populations are ready for self-government.

44. Internationalize the Panama Canal.

45. Repeal the Connally Reservation so the U.S. cannot prevent the World Court from seizing jurisdiction over domestic problems. Give the World Court jurisdiction over domestic problems. Give the World Court jurisdiction over nations and individuals alike.


54 posted on 03/18/2007 6:52:14 AM PDT by freedomfiter2 (Duncan Hunter: pro-life, pro-2nd Amendment, pro-border control, pro-family)
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To: KDD
the liberal Boston Herald

Read much?

55 posted on 03/18/2007 6:55:07 AM PDT by BfloGuy (It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker, that we can expect . . .)
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To: JohnSheppard

Rudy may be peaking too early. If I were Rudy I'd be looking over my shoulders at Fred Thompson, who may be the next POTUS.


56 posted on 03/18/2007 6:58:11 AM PDT by KenmcG414
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To: ziravan
Hey, Timothy, wouldn't voting for a libertarian candidate be just like voting for Rudy? Seriously, just swap two issues -- support for the WOT [rudy for libertarian against] and gun control [rudy for libertarian against] -- and you have, essentially, voted for the exact same platform.

I am not convinced that Rudy is going to be tough on guns at the federal level as an executive...I believe that he tried to clean up NYC because the people of that city clamored for it and he took a misguided approach but one that, surprisingly, netted positive results. It should have but perhaps there were other factors that reduced violent crimes and perhaps without gun control the results would have been even better.

57 posted on 03/18/2007 7:00:50 AM PDT by LowCountryJoe (I'm a Paleo-liberal: I believe in freedom; am socially independent and a borderline fiscal anarchist)
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To: panaxanax
"Anyone that supports a liberal candidate that is pro-gay, pro-late term abortion and anti-2nd Amendment should not be allowed to call themselves a FReeper."

those views are not conservative or liberal they have more to do with the culture of the small town and evangelical churches. Rudy is in fact the only true Conservative in the race.
58 posted on 03/18/2007 7:04:01 AM PDT by bilhosty (to hell with ABCNNBCBS)
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To: freedomfiter2

Free trade -- that is, commerce that is free from regulation -- is not even close to being Marxist. At its core and in its essense, trade is capitalistic. Just food for thought.


59 posted on 03/18/2007 7:05:57 AM PDT by LowCountryJoe (I'm a Paleo-liberal: I believe in freedom; am socially independent and a borderline fiscal anarchist)
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To: tkathy

The reason many do not support Rino Rudy is not just one issue. He is on the wrong side of guns, gays, abortion, global warming, etc.....


60 posted on 03/18/2007 7:07:16 AM PDT by Hydroshock (Duncan Hunter For President, checkout gohunter08.com.)
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