Rudy Giuliani: [to SC Firefighters & Police] 'A Woman Has the Right to Choose Abortion'

To: George W. Bush

Very very few states, if any, would actually outlaw abortion entirely or try for a ban of the type South Dakota had on the ballot.

IIRC the SD abortion ban passed by the legislature did not include an exception for the life of the mother, or for rape or incest. I believe that any ban which does not make an exception for the life of the mother is doomed to fail in a public referendum, and very likely to fail if it does not also except abortions for rape and incest.

While I totally agree with the legislators that there should not be an exception for rape and incest cases, I would reluctantly agree to those exceptions if that would assure the law's approval by the voters. I don't have a problem with an exception in cases where delivering the baby either vaginally or surgically would involve a high risk of death for the mother and the diagnosis has been confirmed by more than one unbiased medical doctor. But whether or not I or anyone else agrees with those exceptions, I don't believe that a ban on abortion which requires the approval of the voters could be enacted in any state without them.

381 posted on 02/22/2007 9:21:57 PM PST by epow

So Duncan Hunter wants his judicial nominees to outlaw abortion nationwide. Interesting. I thought he was against judicial activism.

Let's say that tomorrow the SCOTUS ruled that all public schools must teach that thunder is the sound of God bowling, and additionally decreed that all federal agencies who deal with weather phenomena (Natl. Weather Service, FAA, NOAA, etc.) must adopt this "truth" as the foundation of their policies.

Would a decision to overturn that and go back to the scientific view of thunder be judicial activism?

The fetus is human. This is undeniable by any rational, scientific measure. Although turning abortion law back to the states would be an improvement over the current situation, it would not be any more valid (or any less an act of judicial activism) than letting states decide under what circumstances one is allowed to own an African.

382 posted on 02/22/2007 9:21:59 PM PST by Mr. Silverback ("Logic" is as meaningless to a liberal as "desert" is to a fish.--Freeper IronJack)

Do you see? The LAW protects the woman's choice, because the only way to prohibit the choice she is making is to BREAK THE LAW by intervening.

Point to that specific law. Criminal law prohibits me from assaulting anyone whether they are an abortionist or a pro-lifer. Just because it would be illegal for me to assault someone who is smoking crack doesn't mean that smoking crack is a "right" that is protected by law.

Your "essences, penumbras, and emanations" won't save you from the fact that there is no law or portion of the Constitution to back up your earlier statement.

America has given a great gift to the world, a gift that drew upon the accumulated wisdom derived from centuries of experiments in self-government, a gift that has irrevocably changed humanity's future. Our gift is twofold: the declaration, as a cardinal principle of all just law, of the God-given, unalienable rights possessed by every human being; and the example of our determination to secure those rights and to defend them against every challenge through the generations. Our declaration and defense of our rights have made us and kept us free and have sent a tide of hope and inspiration around the globe.
One of those unalienable rights, as the Declaration of Independence affirms so eloquently, is the right to life. In the 34 years since the Supreme Court's decision in Roe v. Wade, however, America's unborn have been denied their right to life. Among the tragic and unspeakable results in the past three and one half decades have been the loss of life of 48 million infants before birth; the pressure and anguish of countless women and girls who are driven to abortion; and a cheapening of our respect for the human person and the sanctity of human life.
We are told that we may not interfere with abortion. We are told that we may not "impose our morality'' on those who wish to allow or participate in the taking of the life of infants before birth; yet no one calls it "imposing morality" to prohibit the taking of life after people are born. We are told as well that there exists a "right" to end the lives of unborn children; yet no one can explain how such a right can exist in stark contradiction of each person's fundamental right to life.
That right to life belongs equally to babies in the womb, babies born handicapped, and the elderly or infirm. That we have killed the unborn for 34 years does not nullify this right, nor could any number of killings ever do so. The unalienable right to life is found not only in the Declaration of Independence but also in the Constitution that every President is sworn to preserve, protect, and defend. Both the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments guarantee that no person shall be deprived of life without due process of law.
All medical and scientific evidence increasingly affirms that children before birth share all the basic attributes of human personality -- that they in fact are persons. Modern medicine treats unborn children as patients. Yet, as the Supreme Court itself has noted, the decision in Roe v. Wade rested upon an earlier state of medical technology. The law of the land in 2007 should recognize all of the medical evidence.
Our nation cannot continue down the path of abortion, so radically at odds with our history, our heritage, and our concepts of justice. This sacred legacy, and the well-being and the future of our country, demand that protection of the innocents must be guaranteed and that the personhood of the unborn be declared and defended throughout our land.
Ronald Reagan - 14 January 1988 - http://www.nrlc.org/ReaganProclamation.html

383 posted on 02/22/2007 9:35:54 PM PST by Spiff (Rudy Giuliani Quote (NY Post, 1996) "Most of Clinton's policies are very similar to most of mine.")

To: Sabramerican

Like it or not- a woman has a right to choose abortion in the United States.

Once, a man had a right to own an African in the United States. Rare was the politician who would come right out and say, "you don't have the right to own an African." I don't see any difference.

384 posted on 02/22/2007 9:41:44 PM PST by Mr. Silverback ("Logic" is as meaningless to a liberal as "desert" is to a fish.--Freeper IronJack)

Once the courts said we all had the right toown an African. Had you been alive then, I'm sure you would have defended that, too. Am I wrong?

385 posted on 02/22/2007 9:42:42 PM PST by Mr. Silverback ("Logic" is as meaningless to a liberal as "desert" is to a fish.--Freeper IronJack)

Rudy realizes that, in the 21st century, laws do not stop abortion, persuasion is the only way.

Abolitionists used to say that about slavery, too.

386 posted on 02/22/2007 9:44:42 PM PST by Mr. Silverback ("Logic" is as meaningless to a liberal as "desert" is to a fish.--Freeper IronJack)

To: Mr. Silverback

Once, a man had a right to own an African in the United States. Rare was the politician who would come right out and say, "you don't have the right to own an African." I don't see any difference.

That is because there is no difference.

This is not the first time our country has been divided by a Supreme Court decision that denied the value of certain human lives. The Dred Scott decision of 1857 was not overturned in a day, or a year, or even a decade. At first, only a minority of Americans recognized and deplored the moral crisis brought about by denying the full humanity of our black brothers and sisters; but that minority persisted in their vision and finally prevailed.

Ronald Reagan - January 1983

387 posted on 02/22/2007 9:50:16 PM PST by Spiff (Rudy Giuliani Quote (NY Post, 1996) "Most of Clinton's policies are very similar to most of mine.")

To: upcountryhorseman

If the Supreme Court ruled tomorrow that anyone who has ever used a screen name beginning with the letter U can be killed without any penalty for the killer, would you be thinking it was a matter for the states, or would you figure it was a ruling that should be overturned completely?

If tomorrow the SCOTUS declared that thunder is the sound of God bowling (about as silly an assertion as the idea that a fetus can be a non-human target) would it be a good idea to overturn it, or to let some of the states declare that it really is the sound of God bowling?

388 posted on 02/22/2007 9:50:38 PM PST by Mr. Silverback ("Logic" is as meaningless to a liberal as "desert" is to a fish.--Freeper IronJack)

Although I would dread the thought of another Arkansas Governor being president, Huckabee looks like a legitimate conservative candidate.

Huckabee's statements on the war (if the surge doesn't work we're out of options, etc.) show he doesn't understand the enemy we're fighting or the need for a will to finish.

389 posted on 02/22/2007 9:52:11 PM PST by Mr. Silverback ("Logic" is as meaningless to a liberal as "desert" is to a fish.--Freeper IronJack)

Whether or not you like it, the right exists.

Just like the right to own an African, circa 1840.

390 posted on 02/22/2007 9:54:42 PM PST by Mr. Silverback ("Logic" is as meaningless to a liberal as "desert" is to a fish.--Freeper IronJack)

I am not a Rudy fan and hope he's not the nominee, but if he is the nominee there is no moral conundrum involved in voting for him. If he and Hillary are the nominees we will be faced with a choice between a pro-abort who loves America and can run a war and a pro-abort who is a Marxist and will lose the war. That's an easy pick.

391 posted on 02/22/2007 10:00:01 PM PST by Mr. Silverback ("Logic" is as meaningless to a liberal as "desert" is to a fish.--Freeper IronJack)

The question is, do we want to punish a woman who has been raped, remember her of that horrific act every day, and force her to bear the child of her rapist.

Bearing the child of a rapist, though certainly no piece of cake, would no more be a punishment by the state than the rape was.

392 posted on 02/22/2007 10:06:15 PM PST by Mr. Silverback ("Logic" is as meaningless to a liberal as "desert" is to a fish.--Freeper IronJack)

To: George W. Bush

If, for instance, we still had laws on the books about witches and how to determine if they were witches by tossing them in water to see if they float, the Court would strike those down as being based on faulty reasoning which was subsequently disproved by science. Therefore, they would strike it down, despite that such laws would have a stare decisis of many centuries.

Excellent point!

393 posted on 02/22/2007 10:08:14 PM PST by Mr. Silverback ("Logic" is as meaningless to a liberal as "desert" is to a fish.--Freeper IronJack)

Though I understand (and agree with your trepidations about Giuliani, watch and see what happens if he gets the nomination. All the pro-abort organizations will work like dogs to defeat him, just like they chose Bustamente over Schwarzenegger.

394 posted on 02/22/2007 10:13:25 PM PST by Mr. Silverback ("Logic" is as meaningless to a liberal as "desert" is to a fish.--Freeper IronJack)

In any case, if the morning-after-pill is administered too late, or the hospital does not provide the services, then abortion should be allowed.

If a particular medical procedure is unsuccessful or not available, a child should be killed as a result?

395 posted on 02/22/2007 10:18:06 PM PST by Mr. Silverback ("Logic" is as meaningless to a liberal as "desert" is to a fish.--Freeper IronJack)

No matter how many good points Rudy has, he supports a legal condition that enables the dismemberment of 1.5 million kids, and he is a gun-grabber. There are a lot of conservatives, almost all of them quite reasonable, who think dead kids and gun confiscation are really, really bad.

So why not show some class and ditch the crying baby badge?

396 posted on 02/22/2007 10:23:31 PM PST by Mr. Silverback ("Logic" is as meaningless to a liberal as "desert" is to a fish.--Freeper IronJack)

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Vacate Thread! Do Not Engage! Vacate Thread!

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397 posted on 02/22/2007 10:26:44 PM PST by unsycophant

Is masturbation a sin? Is it murder too?

What a moronic question. One cannot murder something that is not a human.

398 posted on 02/22/2007 10:27:34 PM PST by Mr. Silverback ("Logic" is as meaningless to a liberal as "desert" is to a fish.--Freeper IronJack)

Giuliani/Clinton/Dem vs. GOP Platform Comparison
Issue	Giuliani	Clinton	Dem Platform	GOP Platform
Abortion on Demand	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Partial Birth Abortion	Supports Opposed NY ban	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Roe v. Wade	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Taxpayer Funded Abortions	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Embryonic Stem Cell Research	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Federal Marriage Amendment	Opposes	Opposes	Opposes Defined at state level	Supports
Gay Domestic Partnership/ Civil Unions	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Openly Gay Military	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Defense of Marriage Act	Opposes	Opposes	Opposes	Supports
Amnesty for Illegal Aliens	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Special Path to Citizenship for Illegal Aliens	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Tough Penalties for Employers of Illegal Aliens	Opposes	Opposes	Opposes	Supports
Sanctuary Cities/ Ignoring Immigration Law	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Protecting 2nd Amendment	Opposes	Opposes	Opposes Supports bans	Supports
Confiscating Guns	Supports Confiscated as mayor. Even bragged.	Supports	Supports Supports bans	Opposes
'Assault' Weapons Ban	Supports	Supports	Supports
Frivolous Lawsuits Against Gun Makers	Supports Filed One Himself	Supports		Opposes
Gun Registration/Licenses	Supports	Supports		Opposes
War in Afghanistan	Supports	Supports Voted for it	Supports	Supports
War in Iraq	Supports	Supports Voted for it	Supports Weak support	Supports
Patriot Act	Supports	Supports Voted for it 2001 & 2006	Opposes	Supports

"Most of Clinton's policies are very similar to most of mine." - Rudy Giuliani

Freedom is about authority. Freedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do and how you do it.
Rudy Giuliani

We don't have to accept liberal Rudy. There are other options. This fellow may be the best one:

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399 posted on 02/22/2007 10:27:40 PM PST by narses ("Freedom is about authority." - Rudolph Giuliani)

Yay! Narses returns from being AWOL.

400 posted on 02/22/2007 10:28:36 PM PST by Spiff (Rudy Giuliani Quote (NY Post, 1996) "Most of Clinton's policies are very similar to most of mine.")

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