Posted on 02/10/2007 6:32:12 AM PST by shrinkermd
I agree. I'd love to see corporations sponsor technical schools at the high school level.
I tell my kids that it is actually a religion course because it talks about all topics that religion covers: truth and ethics. As such, they must keep up their guard so they don't get brainwashed by what they are being taught. We talk a lot about the content, and if not for my input, they would have been swayed by the teacher. It is really a Sunday School class, 5 days a week, with homework, paid for by taxpayers, and being used, in most cases (depending on the teacher), to teach kids to be secularists.
Funny, you could accuse many colleges & universities of the same. Granted, at that level you usually can't get funds without the talent, but there are exceptions.
Oh, and in the interest of full disclosure, I received both a National Merit and National Association of Space, Science, & Technology scholarship in college. The second scholarship was cut by President Clinton because too many non-minorities received it...
What they need is for their roadblocks to be eliminated. By the time they are 14 they should be cruising through math and languages, but that is when the brakes are slammed on in 90% of the education institution situations. The 10% who get through anyway are like Jimmy Carter and Algore, mean SOBs with an ax to grind.
Your attitude is part of the problem - in fact it IS the problem. Smart kids need just as much guidance and help as anyone if they are to reach their potential - and it is to the advantage of society as a whole if they do. You are WRONG about help being out there - all scholarships now are based on "need," not "merit." I know it is shocking, but it is true. We are throwing away an important resource.
A kick in the ass won't help if you're kicking them right back into the school of mediocrity. Give them a challenge and let them rise to it, and to their own best self. Don't just envy them because they are smarter than you!
At an educators' meeting in Washington last fall, conversation turned to whether the federal government should support programming for this nation's most gifted and talented high school students.
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The FEDERAL government? Absolutely not! Our Constitution has been reduced to a mere suggestion as it is. Why make desecration of this document even worse.
I have an idea! Work to privatize universal K=12 education. Give parents and everyone else a GREAT BIG tax deduction, and let them educate their own children whether smart or dumb.
You and I both did the right thing by our children in teaching them at home.
You said: "You are WRONG about help being out there - all scholarships now are based on "need," not "merit." "
Sorry, but I'm the parent of three kids who all went to college on 4-year MERIT scholarships, awarded by the university. They had no financial need. All three are products of the public school system in Texas, all three took honors and advanced placement classes in high school, all three earned those merit scholarships by putting their bright minds to work.
I have no quarrel with your assertion that "smart kids need just as much guidance and help as anyone if they are to reach their potential". In fact, I would argue from experience that, at times, keeping a gifted child's mind occupied in the right direction requires more guidance than for the average child.
I just don't think government intervention is the answer.
Kids can choose which AP classes to enroll in. That sounds like one I would see that my kids skipped.
I can just tell you from experience that my kids benefited greatly from numerous AP courses in math, science, history and English. They were tough courses, and they tested out of roughly 40 college hours each as a result.
However, I believe that the greatest benefit of the AP classes was in college prep. They had to study, and study hard, to do well. Good training, good experience.
We're in Texas. Obviously, I can't speak for California.
My son is gifted and my daughter is special needs.
One way that the public school is failing my son is by not having honors classes for smart kids. They at least do let kids skip grades for math, so my son is 2 years ahead in math. However, there are no accelerated courses for science, social studies, or language arts. He's stuck in classes with kids that aren't motivated to learn.
Thank God, he does learn on his own and it is extremely easy to supplement his learning. Just take him to the library or put him on the internet and off he goes.
The govt schools totally failed my special needs daughter, and we finally had to put her in private school. The problem with special needs kids is they don't learn easily. I can't just take her to the library and give her a book to read. She needs to be taught differently, and that requires a person trained in different teaching technigues. My daughter is in a multi-sensory reading program at the private school.
I think there are ways to help kids that wouldn't cost a lot of money. It can't cost a ton of money to provide honors classes at schools.
I also think that multi-sensory classrooms should be set up to teach kids that don't learn auditorily. There are programs already set up, and they wouldn't be expensive for a school to purchase to use on classrooms of kids. However, they are expensive to use on 1 kid.
Interesting discussion. We have been discussing inexpensive ways to fast track kids through high school to avoid the nonsense:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1315730/posts?page=84#84
Most parents are not aware of what their kids are getting, especially the Asian parents who are so diligent in wanting their kids to succeed, but are so naive about what actually gets taught in the classes because many of the Asian parents can't read English very well. TOK classes are especially dangerous.
To be honest, it sounds to me like your kids missed childhood and were hurried into a too-long adulthood. Makes me sorry for them.
As for "milking every taxpayer dime out of them," that makes no sense at all. You pay school taxes for the common good whether you have kids attending or not. Because you refused to enroll your children, you allowed the money that would have been freely spent on their public school to be used for the benefit of others.
As for "milking every taxpayer dime out of them," that makes no sense at all. You pay school taxes for the common good whether you have kids attending or not.
Most government schools are funded by the population count in their schools. When a child leaves the government school, the school loses the state and federal dollars that are attached to that child.
Because you refused to enroll your children, you allowed the money that would have been freely spent on their public school to be used for the benefit of others.
The extra money was likely not spent on the schools but on other county projects.
To be honest, it sounds to me like your kids missed childhood and were hurried into a too-long adulthood. Makes me sorry for them.
If you think about this, you will see that my kids had FAR, FAR, MORE time to be children, that the typical imprisoned ( oops! schooled) child.
My children started out in community college with one course. This hardly a burden. Then 2, and filially 3. They did not take full loads until age 16. They did all the teeny things that most kids do. All three are ballroom dancers so they went to many formal and informal dances. One is a highly ranked national and international athlete and travels world wide. One continued in soccer for a time. All were active in their school and church choirs. All three continued with ballet, modern, tap, and jazz dance. They had sleep overs, and dinners for their friends before going out to dance. They were active in our church humanitarian projects.
One thing my children had, even when they finally were taking a full load of courses, is MORE TIME in the day to be kids, relax, freely read, play, and get the exercise that their bodies needed. They had MORE time to be a kid, not less.
The two younger were math majors. Math and physics majors have the highest SAT scores on campus ( both verbal and math). This meant that they were able to match wits, and form collaboration with their intellectual peers. It gave them an opportunity to realistically appraise their talents in the real world of math. They learned be humble before professors and some students who were seriously contributing to science and industry.
I do not think that "gifted" classes" are helpful. My children could have gone to the Johns Hopkins gifted program, but we chose not too. What it does is label children, giving them a false sense of superiority and specialness. These programs often do not have a coherent educational plan. One concept does NOT build upon the other leading to, and giving the skills for, the next level of work. I rejected our county's gifted program because it nothing more than enrichment, and they were getting plenty of enrichment at home.
In math and science, ( my children's strengths), those with whom they will be working, are ALL gifted. The puny high school awards and segregated classes, are not helpful and often detrimental. What is needed is a realistic assement of their talent compared to that of others' in the field.
I will give an example. I was merely an above average student in high school. In my early 20s, I decided to go to professional school. It meant taking pre-med. I was not accepted to the traditional pre-med program, but was to a harder general science program for science majors. I remember well, an 18 year old bragging to me that he had graduated from the local school for the gifted ( Boys High in Philadelphia), had a full scholarship, was a National Merit Scholar finalist,,,etc. The following semester he, had dropped out of the general science program, and was then a business major. The problem with this kid, was an overweening sense of confidence in the face of the real challenge of science. He was smart, for sure, but not well prepared for the level and pace of the work or the competition. ( I by the way, with my puny resume, had a 3.9 average that semester.)
Finally, I believe that teens (both bright and average) are artificially infantilized. It is not healthy for them, and is responsible for much of the dysfunction that we see in the modern American teen. The bright kids should be chewing on intellectually demanding material that comes with college credit. They should be given the challenge when they are ready for it, whether 9 years old or 16. It is wrong for government schools to place arbitrary age limits on AP courses. It is wrong for government to place an arbitrary age on the taking the GED. Any child who can pass the GED should be allow to take it, and leave school, if he and his parents choose.
I believe we would have less delinquency if those children ( both bright and average) who wish to apprentice in the REAL world of work were allowed to do so. They would benefit from the training, and from the mentoring of adults who had a passion for their craft.
I also believe that it is one of our country's strengths, that adults can re-enter the academic world, and get training in the trades, at any time in their lives.
As a side not, I have taken care of this problem myself by working hard to educate my children beyond what they are taught in school. Not all parents can do this, I may not be the best teacher for them either, but at least I try.
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And,,,After all your efforts in "after schooling", when the standardized scores of your child's school is higher, who will take the credit for all your work? Of course! The government school. The government school will point to their Blue Ribbon.
When government schools fail, who to government school teachers and principals blame? Of course! The parents.
They then tend to move a little faster through the standard material and do get an opportunity to delve further into their learning. They do not usually get more advanced or harder work.
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My observation as well. What they get is more of the boring old same old. They may get some distracting enrichment, but they do NOT move on to building the foundation for advanced work. They do NOT progress through these foundational levels more quickly.
Holding my children back to the junior year in high school would have been a terrible waste of time. Hey! By 18 my two younger had already FINISHED a B.S. degree in math from our flagship university.
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