Posted on 01/19/2007 6:17:18 AM PST by FLOutdoorsman
A Naval Academy midshipman who was expelled after he failed a running test will have to pay the Navy for the cost of his education.
Baltimore County resident Frank Shannon had asked that the 127-thousand dollar bill be waived. But a senior Navy official rejected his appeal this month, saying the academy provided Shannon with ample opportunity to meet its minimum fitness standards.
Shannon failed 12 of 18 fitness tests, and failed in a series of attempts to run a mile-and-a-half in 10 minutes and 30 seconds. In his final test, he was 20 seconds short. He was expelled just weeks before graduation.
Shannon is hoping a member of Congress will intervene. Aides to Senator Mikulski suggested he apply for readmission to the academy, but Shannon is currently married and would first have to divorce his wife before applying.
Can the Navy afford to pass on talent and dedication like this? I don't get it.
It's 1.5 mile.
BnG
It is still 2 for 7 ....
Our son signed his 2 for 7 papers last August at the River Severn School for Wayward Children!
(Actually - that son is the only one of my 3 kids who didn't go wayward! I had 5 years Active, 25 years Reserve - former Submarine Officer ... and the other 2 went ... gasp gasp ... ARMY.)
But you are VERY Correct - unless a Mid is a complete jerk, there will be shipmates who will help pace him, encourage him, run with him, day after day, to prepare for the PFT, and on the day of the test, to help him pass. If he failed the test, he only need look at the approximate 900+ (and if I recall, being at the 2006 graduation ceremony, there were about 950 graduating) who DID meet the standards!
Mike
Two points for others who might not know ....
Non-EE majors will take two "easier" courses in Electrical Engineering ... called "wires". They take the 2 classes in their 2nd year.
The EE majors have MUCH Tougher courses, including "cables" - which is much harder version of the "wires" course.
As to being crazy to someone who majors in EE ... crazy isn't a term I would use for my son - who is USNA Class of 2008, a EE major - and thus far is managing a 4.0 in his major. (It just takes a lot of hard work!!)
Mike
Bill the U.S. representative or U.S. senator that nominated this flunky to the Academy - that'll get said rep's/senator's attention... QUICK!
I never did make a 12 min mile and a half. Fortunately for my age that was only the goal, not the requirement, and I missed the goal by, coincidently, about 20 seconds. I did meet the requirement, though. Funny thing is, I made about the same time 10 years later. After having gained and then lost about 100 pounds. The difference was that I was still trying to lose the last few pounds to meet that standard when I took the first running test, while the 10 years later test was many months after I'd finished losing the 100+ pounds, and I'd lost the last 25 or so by running 3 miles 3 times a week and 5 miles twice a week. (When I'd worked up to that of course). Still, I was more tortoise than hare. Now I can't run at all, I'd blow out my knee, especially the one with no ACL, in about 10 strides.
Well the standards are toughest for entry and in this case commissioning. The required times get longer as one ages. All active duty officers, and enlisted personnel too, in all the services, are required to meet age adjusted PF standards. All of them are different.
I work on an Army post and there's a few folks in ACUs about whom I wonder how they ever meet the requirements.
Enlisted and Officers meet the same standards, although since officers tend to be older, on average I suppose their standards are just a bit lower. Weight standards are usually not age adjusted, just PF standards.
When I took my first physical upon returning to active reserve status, I asked the doctor, also a reservist, if I needed to lose any more weight. His answer was, no, for your frame you are at the right weight. I was less than 3 pounds under the maximum for my height (I was horrified to find, at 33, that I'd shrunk 1/4"). Fortunately for dense folk, there are alternatives to the weight standards, involving measurements, and in extreme cases, true body fat measurements (by immersion). One guy, a 1LT, had what appeared to be a belly and generally round appearance. Didn't help he was also stubby. When the did the tape measurements, he failed, when they did the immersion measurements, he was had only slightly higher body fat than Earl Campbell. The guy was a tank.. an Air Force Intelligence Officer tank, but a tank nonetheless.
There was another AF guy, this one enlisted, that couldn't get into Para Rescue school, because he couldn't float, he was so dense.
My nephew just started at UC Davis. As a resident of California it will cost about $23,000 per year. That includes living on campus...comparable to living on campus at the Naval Academy. If you allow for non-resident status and high cost training including cruises, the cost is probably correct.
I never could, even after "training up" for several months. I could run 5 miles in about 55-60 minutes, but I couldn't do a mile and a half in less than 12:30-12:45. Some folks are just big from the waist up, and short from the waist down. In my case my "wingspan" is more than 6" longer than my height, and the difference is in the short legs, and to some extent the gorilla arms. (Gorilla is what my granddaughter signs when she sees me. :) Oh well. )
Reminds me of back in college and my girlfriend was in ROTC and trying to pass a PT so she could go to some airborne camp for the summer (82nd? Georgia? - its been many years). I worked with her every day running, sit ups, etc. to pass and she made it.
Once down there they did everything they could to try to break her - I think having women was a new thing back then (early 80's). But she made it, and never cried. Her favorite was doing push-ups in the mud and come up with her front and face covered in muck and a big enthusiastic "yes SIR" afterwards.
She ended up being career Army (Engineering).
While it wasn't at the Naval Academy, I had about a 3.6 overall and 3.8 or so in all my undergraduate engineering, science and math courses. My BS and MS are in EE. It ain't rocket science, but it's not easy either, at least for most people.
I was AF ROTC, but we had a considerable number of NESEP (Navy Enlisted Scientific Education Program) students in our department. Only one, of maybe half dozen or so in EE (there were others in other Engineering departments) in my class couldn't hack it, had his grades drop below the Navy standard, and got sent back to the Fleet. (I think he was relieved, probably retired as a Chief :) ) The rest graduated and were commissioned as line officers, most entered the Surface Warfare community, IIRC, although one or two might have gone into EDO engineering slots, keeping the teakettle perking.
For the Navy, and more so for the Air Force, the drawdown years are continuing. AF was slatted to shrink by 40,000 (active, reserve and AF civilians) in the next couple of years, and tha was before the "I loathe the military" 'rats took over Congress. Navy was to shrink as well, just not so much. Army and Marines were slated to grow, but not quite as much as the losses in the other two services.
I was commmissioned during a drawdown time as well. 1973. I left active duty 2 1/2 years later (dumbest thing I ever did), on the basis of the AF being desperate to get under the ceiling. I remained in the Reserve and later Guard for a total of about 8 years.
Later I helped design the LANTIRN terrain following system for the F-16 and F-15E (plus V-22, HH-60 and HH-47 in a slightly modified version not called LANTIRN), I also helped build a simulator for training AWACS and other air weapons controllers. And then there are were other things, but if I told y'all, I have to shoot you, and then me.
So I feel that the AF still got it's money's worth. (MS was on GI bill after I separated)
"Pelosivich"
That's great, funniest thing I have read all day, I love it.
That seems to be the practice at engineering schools across the country.
EE's resent the hell out of it. We have/had to take the same first fluids, thermo, and mechanics classes as the mechanical, civil and chemical types, but they got to take the "EE for dummies" version. (To be fair, their course was broader but also more shallow than ours, covering *some* topics we'd go into in depth in later courses)
> 5th graders in our local school run the mile faster then that.
5th graders are young and fit. I wish I could do now what I could do then. That said, it sounds like that Lad has done some hard living in between childhood and Naval Acadamy. Playstation and Computers and MTV, probably.
Maybe should have listened to Mom and played outside more.
I can get you going faster than you think:)
Chronic Pizza Poisoning?
No, he did pullups just fine. The bar hang was required test to screen out those who were prone to shoulder dislocations. Our baseball genius was dislocating his shoulder daily, so we knew his time was short.
Are there many instances when an officer needs to run a mile and a half in 10:30 minutes on a ship at sea?
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