Posted on 01/19/2007 6:17:18 AM PST by FLOutdoorsman
A Naval Academy midshipman who was expelled after he failed a running test will have to pay the Navy for the cost of his education.
Baltimore County resident Frank Shannon had asked that the 127-thousand dollar bill be waived. But a senior Navy official rejected his appeal this month, saying the academy provided Shannon with ample opportunity to meet its minimum fitness standards.
Shannon failed 12 of 18 fitness tests, and failed in a series of attempts to run a mile-and-a-half in 10 minutes and 30 seconds. In his final test, he was 20 seconds short. He was expelled just weeks before graduation.
Shannon is hoping a member of Congress will intervene. Aides to Senator Mikulski suggested he apply for readmission to the academy, but Shannon is currently married and would first have to divorce his wife before applying.
"My impression is that this guy is a jock who had been given special privileges throughout his academic career."
Your impression is wrong. Jocks are not admitted to the National Honor Society because they can shoot baskets, block defensive lineman or throw the discus. Hence your comparision to the officers you know/knew is not valid.
He tried to become an officer and serve his country even taking desperate steps to do so and is now getting whacked for his efforts.
For those people that don't know (Iknow you do), they might be wondering about the less than impressive standards to get into the different schools like jump school or SEAL training.
The entrance requirements do not reflect the condition the individual will be in when he finishes.
These schools, especially the Airborne and Ranger schools, take in people of different ages, different branches of the service, different ranks, and even different countries. The physical requirements to enter the schools are simply to verify that the individual is able enough to start the course.
Do any of the old timers remember how the old Army 500 point PT test was scored?
500, wow, never heard of that one. We use the 300 point scoring. It got ALOT easier around, 98 or 99, when they changed the scoring system.
OK, explained that way it makes sense. Thanks.
He's not getting whacked for his efforts - he's getting whacked for his lack of effort. The physical fitness test is just one of the standards that they have to meet to graduate. It's not a big secret that they spring on them at the last minute - they know about it from the first week of school. As other posters have pointed out, it's not an extremely demanding fitness test. It sounds like the guy was too busy keeping his GPA up to spend time on a workout program and now he's paying the price. Obviously his instructors and advisors at the academy felt that his failure was due to a lack of effort and that's why they didn't go to bat for him.
If the Navy waives the standards for people who can't meet them, why have a standard at all?
I'm an ex Air Force officer, not Navy. A gentleman above noted extra help that would have been given this kid and this is probably the most critical thing -- and it's something the Air Force did, too, back in the day.
When there was a cadet who was not a screw-off and who wanted it badly and had done the work and paid the various prices -- but seemed to have run into some particular qualification limitation that was stopping him cold, you moved heaven and earth to help him. The whole squadron would work with him and try to help. His flight commander, squadron commander and group commander would be out there working with him to try to help. You did not abandon someone who was trying. And if that cadet still couldn't do it and if that cadet did extra duties in something else and excelled in something else to try to compensate, then you read between the lines of every possible regulation to try to find cause for waiver. When you live and train with people 24/7 for months, you know deserves gold bars on their shoulder and who does not.
This particular kid . . . there's something here we don't know. He sounds a bit screwy, actually. Something is buried under this story we don't know.
It must be those long elegant legs.
Some standards are arbitrary as this thread has shown. These in question are higher than those in the rest of the Navy and the other service academies.
Wasting talent and dedicated men is not a wish policy.
I agree, something is being left out in this story.
Thinking back to my cadet days I bet the cadet pissed someone off.
When I was in Army ROTC during advance camp, my buddy got a 3, average score. We were all shocked. We expected him to get a 5 which was the highest score. I asked what might of happened. He said he was in charge and given a mission. The CPT told him how to do it. My buddy completed the mission his own way. He said after that mission the CPT treated him different.
The next spring at a Ranger challenge competion, my buddy met his other TAC officer from camp. The TAC officer apologized to my buddy that he got a 3 and wanted to make sure it hadn't affected my friends chance to go active duty. This TAC officer was junior to the 1st CPT and got overruled on givng my buddy a grade of 4 or 5. It made my buddy feel better about his ranking at the time.
To not let this guy go enlisted seems a waste when he already qualifed for enlisted nuc school which is suppose to have a high wash out rate. It seems crazy when were at a time of war that they would just let him go.
I knew a guy who "landed wrong" and ruptured his bladder - a year later he still looked like warmed-over death.
Is it possible to graduate from the academy but not be commissioned? Get a degree but not the gold bars?
I'm sure the academy has had some senior have a car accident which medically disqualifed them but then allow the senior to graduate with a degree.
I don't remember point scoring in 1962,3,4,5, but do know we had several additional exercises to complete. Well remember hand walking under the ladder rungs.
It is not at all unusual to have 5 or 10 slobs who stay over the summer after they should have graduated while trying to get their PT scores in line. It is very unusual for someone to fail to earn their commission. Passing a basic run test when you are given 2 to 3 months where you have nothing to do but work out and get your run times in order is not a massive task.
We sign a contract by showing up for class at the beginning of our junior year. The night before classes start used to be called 2-for-7 night ... now it's 2-for-8. When you are marked present in any academic class of your third year you have lost your ability to walk away. You are at that point obligated and under contract with the government.
After that point - if you either want to quit or are booted - if you are physically eligible for service - then you may be sent to the fleet as an enlisted Sailor to recompense Uncle Sam for the education received (degree eligible or not). If you are physically unable to serve due to failure to meet performance standards - you may be deemed liable for the cost of your education. In this case he should get his degree, just not his commission.
In my day, not all that long ago, if a company mate was having trouble as the final PT test approached, or if a failure put someone on the remedial list, it was his company mates and class mates who were dragging him/her out of bed at 4:30 in the morning and taking them on runs and work out sessions. It was their shipmates who helped them watch their diet and motivate them in their training. We even had guys who went out, on their own time, and ran the test with people to help them keep a good pace and motivate them through the event.
I am 99.99% certain he was held over after graduation and allowed multiple opportunities against a known deadline to pass the test. I have little if any sympathy for his failure. He knew the deal, he took the benefits, and failed to keep up his end of the bargain.
I suspect there is, but can't recall any specific cases off the top of my head. I'm pretty sure that if something happened through no fault of your own, major illness perhaps, you'd still gaduate. They may even let you participate in the ceremony, just not take the oath and swearing in.
There was the case of Joe Steffan, who got booted a week before graduating for being gay and is now a gay rights activist. He sued for multiple things, multiple times, and I think was eventually awarded his diploma.
"I don't remember point scoring in 1962,3,4,5, but do know we had several additional exercises to complete. Well remember hand walking under the ladder rungs."
When I took the test I was disappointed in only getting a 493 (losing a couple of seconds on the run), it seems that 8 weeks of basic wasn't enough to overcome 3 years of street living, bad diet and heavy smoking.
Besides the usual sit-ups, push-ups, and the two mile run in boots, we also did those horizontal ladder rungs for a timed, number count, and a timed agility course that involved a short course of obstacles and a ditch or two, it was to measure your ability to move quickly on uneven ground and (laterally?).
I think it was a very effective test for males.
Maybe he will go work for Al Qaeda or the Chinese.
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