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To: libertarianPA
It's called "free markets" muscle-head.

Heathcare is not a normal commodity. There always is and always will be more demand than supply. Moreover, it is a public good because the public in general has an interest that its individuals maintain a certain level of good health so that they are productive tax-paying members of society.

Therefore balancing the cost-effective positives of a free-market with the balance required for the above requirements is not all that simplistic as you make it seem. This is why through the various federal programs (medicare / medicaid), Americans have virtual nationalized coverage, but because of simpplisitc thinking and corproate interests the US also has the world's most expensive system (US = 16% of GDP; Germany = 13% of GDP; Japan = 8% of GDP) that still doesn't cover 15% of the population.

The boast that America has the world's best health care is only true if you believe that a system that costs more than any other, covers a lower percentage of people and produces a life-expectancy that is the lowest among comparable countries constitutes "the best".

96 posted on 01/08/2007 11:36:09 PM PST by Einigkeit_Recht_Freiheit (War is Peace__Freedom is Slavery__Ignorance is Strength)
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To: Einigkeit_Recht_Freiheit

"The boast that America has the world's best health care is only true if you believe that a system that costs more than any other, covers a lower percentage of people and produces a life-expectancy that is the lowest among comparable countries constitutes "the best"."

We do have better quality care than other western countries. People aren't flying to Germany or Russia to see specialists. They come here when they want or need the best.

Anyway, prove that a fact is a "boast".


138 posted on 01/09/2007 3:14:05 AM PST by Jezebelle (Our tax dollars are paying the ACLU to sue the Christ out of us.)
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To: Einigkeit_Recht_Freiheit
The boast that America has the world's best health care is only true if you believe that a system that costs more than any other, covers a lower percentage of people and produces a life-expectancy that is the lowest among comparable countries constitutes "the best".

Sorry, but that is nonsense. I don't blame you for it, given the state of the MSM in the EU and here, but the simple fact is that our Health care attracts patients from the four corners of the globe, and people absolutely stream here from Canada to pay for our medical serives.

My reply to your Bullsh*t statement would not be polite so leave it at this: You are 100% wrong.

164 posted on 01/09/2007 6:08:28 AM PST by bill1952 ("All that we do is done with an eye towards something else.")
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To: Einigkeit_Recht_Freiheit

Nor is health care as complex as you might think.

I'm sorry that the EU culture of entitlement has caused you the inablity to think in logical terms, but all that you said doesn't change the basic economic principles involved.

I'll explain it so your liberal mind can understand. Economics involves limited resources versus unlimited needs and wants. Prices are necessary to make sure that the supply is distributed in such a way that everyone has the opportunity to benefit from it. Health care is EXACTLY like any "normal commodity" in that there is only so much of it; there are only so many doctors, hospitals, medicine, etc. When you open it up and make it "free" for all, you've now broken down that barrier between supply and demand.

Now demand is up because any hypochondriac with a sniffle will go to the doctor and waste both time and money. Meanwhile, supply remains the same or decreases because the incentives that existed in a free market for more labor to get involved in medicine are gone.

Government regulation is exactly why health care is so expensive. They've created an environment much like the oil companies - there are only a few players because those are the few that can actually afford to be in the game. Meanwhile, to offset the limited fees they collect from programs like Medicare and sums they must pay in frivolous lawsuits, insurance companies have to rely on high prices and questionable business ethics to ensure high profits.

There are federal and state laws that actually require insurance companies to cover certain procedures that are either unnecessary to many people or subjective in their efficacy - accupuncture, for example. But because government requires that insurance companies to cover them in all their policies, guess what? The consumer is forced to pay for services they don't want or need.

Yes my friend, health care is a different kind of product in a moral and vital sense. But it is exactly like any other product in that government regulation is exactly why it becomes too expensive for the average American.

If government were to get out of it completely, and consumers treated their health care like they do their autombiles - pay for the maintenance themselves and use the insurance in catastrophic instances, you would see insurance prices drop to the point where anyone can afford them. Furthermore, you would see more companies crop up offering plans in which consumers could pick and choose which services they want covered - just like they do with auto insurance.

That's the truth my socialist friend. Perhaps if your nation didn't have such a sense of guilt and moral superiority, they could look at their economy logically. Maybe it would remedy those high taxes and low unemployment that you and the rest of your EU buddies enjoy.

Auf-keep your socialism out of my country-sein!


171 posted on 01/09/2007 7:42:57 AM PST by libertarianPA (http://www.amarxica.com)
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