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To: Einigkeit_Recht_Freiheit

Oh. Just one more point. I think the efficacy of a government program also has to do a lot with the culture of a society. I know that the socialist systems in the Scandanavian region seem to work relatively well as socialist systems go.

But I think that the reason they might work in certain European countries and wouldn't work here is because of the culture. The Scandanavians have always been passive people. You can tax 70% of their income and make them wait for medical procedures, but still they don't complain. Not because they're not upset, but they're just not complainers. I think there's a little of that in Germany. In a film history class I took, we studied German Neo-modernism (or some intellectual BS name like that) and the professor maintained that after WWII, there was a deep sense of guilt in Germany and it took decades before they were ready to present themselves as a significant nation once again - culturally, economically, technolocially, etc. I think a generation or two being raised under that type of mindset also nurtures a sense that no matter how crappy the service might be, you shouldn't complain. It's what you deserve.

Again, my theory. I don't claim to know the German system apart from what I read in economic articles.

The point is - Americans would not put up with that kind of system. When universal health care becomes law here, you will probably find that it just might not last. Try telling a New Yorker that they have to wait 6 months for an operation and you'll see Hell raised on Earth.


242 posted on 01/11/2007 10:04:23 AM PST by libertarianPA (http://www.amarxica.com)
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To: libertarianPA
But I think that the reason they might work in certain European countries and wouldn't work here is because of the culture. The Scandanavians have always been passive people.

How do you account for the Vikings?

You can tax 70% of their income and make them wait for medical procedures, but still they don't complain. Not because they're not upset, but they're just not complainers.

It is true that Scandinavians are not complainers, that doesn't make them passive.

I think their form of government works for them because they have a high regard for personal integrity, are respectful of the rights of others, and they took the message of the Bible seriously.

For instance, one has the freedom to camp, fish, hunt, gather berries, and mushrooms anywhere one pleases, even on another's property. The rules are that you have to stay a respectful distance away from the property owners house, stay out of his fields, and do no damage.

That would never work here because campers would leave behind a mass of beer cans, use a farmers livestock for target practice and tear up property with ATVs.

245 posted on 01/11/2007 6:40:10 PM PST by lucysmom
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To: libertarianPA
Try telling a New Yorker that they have to wait 6 months for an operation and you'll see Hell raised on Earth.

The way it works in the US is that you go to your doctor in considerable pain. The doctor orders x-rays, prescribes pain medication, and makes an appointment for the following month. You keep the appointment, tell the doctor the medication helps, but you're still in pain. He orders an injection and makes another appointment. This goes on for more than a year. You finally make an appointment with another doctor, and ask for your x-rays. The second doctor (you pay out of pocket for the appointment) Takes one look at the x-rays, taken more than a year before, and says you need a hip replacement. You take the written diagnoses back to the first, in plan doctor, and surgery is scheduled.

So, how long did you have to wait for treatment? The month after the out-of-plan doctor made the diagnosos or more than a year that it took you to go to another doctor.

BTW, that is a real life example and happened to my father.

246 posted on 01/11/2007 6:59:57 PM PST by lucysmom
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