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Terri Schiavo Judge George Greer to Speak at Jury Trial Conference
Life News ^ | 1/5/07 | Steven Ertelt

Posted on 01/06/2007 5:52:57 PM PST by wagglebee

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To: T'wit
>> If he was thought to be compromised in that role, there should have been a challenge to his guardianship

There were several legal challenges. Did you read anything the case?

There were no successful legal challenges. None were found to have any merit.

Besides, Terri's parents obviously didn't think that he had a conflict of interest. Speaks volumes.

101 posted on 01/08/2007 10:58:16 AM PST by highball ("I never should have switched from scotch to martinis." -- the last words of Humphrey Bogart)
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To: T'wit

You are confused. The quote that you exerpted was a hypothetical, not referring to this case specifically.


102 posted on 01/08/2007 11:00:04 AM PST by highball ("I never should have switched from scotch to martinis." -- the last words of Humphrey Bogart)
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To: highball
>> You are confused.

That is a very peculiar reaction to me quoting you.

103 posted on 01/08/2007 11:28:05 AM PST by T'wit (Liberalism is in every particular the attitude and tactics of insufferable little girls.)
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To: highball
>> Besides, Terri's parents obviously didn't think that he had a conflict of interest.

That is false. The Schindlers did not sue to challenge Michael's guardianship until they learned, years later, from attorney Deborah Bushnell, that Michael planned to kill their daughter.

104 posted on 01/08/2007 11:37:46 AM PST by T'wit (Liberalism is in every particular the attitude and tactics of insufferable little girls.)
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To: T'wit

You are taking a quote out of context.

I posted a hypothetical to another poster. You are pretending that I was referring to the Schiavo case in particular.

That is where the confusion comes in.


105 posted on 01/08/2007 11:39:03 AM PST by highball ("I never should have switched from scotch to martinis." -- the last words of Humphrey Bogart)
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To: highball
>> The quote that you exerpted was a hypothetical, not referring to this case specifically.

You didn't state it as hypothetical. It was 100% erroneous whether hypothetical or not.

106 posted on 01/08/2007 11:40:18 AM PST by T'wit (Liberalism is in every particular the attitude and tactics of insufferable little girls.)
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To: T'wit

Not false at all - the Schindlers encouraged Schiavo to date other people, years before they decided that they didn't like his guardianship.


107 posted on 01/08/2007 11:40:52 AM PST by highball ("I never should have switched from scotch to martinis." -- the last words of Humphrey Bogart)
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To: highball
>> You are pretending that I was referring to the Schiavo case in particular.

The quote was made to me and it was about Michael Schiavo and nobody else.

108 posted on 01/08/2007 11:43:34 AM PST by T'wit (Liberalism is in every particular the attitude and tactics of insufferable little girls.)
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To: T'wit
You obviously didn't read my post to him very clearly, to have so fully missed the context.

But whatever. You are clouding the issue with semantics.

Not terribly helpful, but not terribly surprising, either - the Schiavo threads tend to be loaded with emotional responses.

109 posted on 01/08/2007 11:44:11 AM PST by highball ("I never should have switched from scotch to martinis." -- the last words of Humphrey Bogart)
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To: highball
>> the Schindlers encouraged Schiavo to date other people, years before they decided that they didn't like his guardianship.

Of course they did. That's a family question that has nothing to do with guardianship. They didn't object to his guardianship until he abused it to try to kill Terri.

110 posted on 01/08/2007 11:46:45 AM PST by T'wit (Liberalism is in every particular the attitude and tactics of insufferable little girls.)
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To: highball
...there is a legal and moral distinction between "killing" and removing treatment from someone who does not want it.

Morality and all of its associated ideals are rooted entirely in the presupposition some higher power defines what is correct for human behavior.

Perhaps you can tell who does not want treatment by reading their mind? You are a psychic maybe?

There is no legal distinction for a judge to determine all by himself, without a jury, that someone's life should be ended by the action of the state. That is tyranny, fascism, or whatever the hell you want to call it...

As for the "moral" distinction, your problem is you just like to play "god" and I'm an atheist...

111 posted on 01/08/2007 11:49:41 AM PST by Sir Francis Dashwood (LET'S ROLL!)
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To: highball
>> You obviously didn't read my post to him very clearly, to have so fully missed the context.

You obviously didn't read the name "BykrBayb" very carefully if you think you were posting to a "him." And of course, the context WAS the Terri Schiavo case, just as I had it.

Here's what you said, word for word, annotated:

>>That's very cute rhetoric, but it isn't what happened here. [N.b. -- the "here" refers to the Schiavo case.]

>> The state didn't make the medical decisions. Her [Terri's] husband [Michael] did, as is his right and his obligation.

This is not a "hypothetical" husband now, is it? It's Michael. You do say he made the decision to kill Terri, just as I reported. You say it is "his right" to make the medical decision. That is nonsense. Guardians have no right either to practice medicine or cause harm or death to their wards. If Michael made the decision, as I noted earlier, he committed murder. That's why he vehemently denies that it was his decision.

112 posted on 01/08/2007 12:10:25 PM PST by T'wit (Liberalism is in every particular the attitude and tactics of insufferable little girls.)
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To: T'wit
Some very interesting comments from Alan Keyes about Terry in this speech.
113 posted on 01/08/2007 12:15:05 PM PST by EternalVigilance (Circumstances are the fire by which the mettle of men is tried.)
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To: Sir Francis Dashwood
The mind-reading rules in this case were to haruspicate from the gurgling entrails of three people named Schiavo, ignore all other testimony, excuse a fatal error of fact by the bench followed by the bench falsifying the records of its error, and then stamp the findings "clear and convincing" evidence, because, see, the statutes say you should have clear and convincing evidence.

Let's roll :-)

114 posted on 01/08/2007 12:20:58 PM PST by T'wit (Liberalism is in every particular the attitude and tactics of insufferable little girls.)
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To: EternalVigilance

Thank you. Busy on other fronts for a bit but I will return to this with interest, be sure.


115 posted on 01/08/2007 12:27:32 PM PST by T'wit (Liberalism is in every particular the attitude and tactics of insufferable little girls.)
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To: 68 grunt
Worst thing to happen to conservatism and FR in a long time.

Yeap. One thing about an aborted baby and Terri Schiavo, neither of them are or were permitted in court. Keep up the good work for FR.

116 posted on 01/08/2007 4:29:03 PM PST by bjs1779
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To: T'wit; garv
"the Schindlers encouraged Schiavo to date other people, years before they decided that they didn't like his guardianship."
Of course they did. That's a family question that has nothing to do with guardianship. They didn't object to his guardianship until he abused it to try to kill Terri.

See, here's the problem when you join in a conversation without reading all the relevant posts. My original post was in response to garv, who said:

When you say "husband" are you referring to the guy who was living with another woman and had fathered several children?

I'm glad you agree with me, that garv's attack on Michael Schiavo was without foundation and had "nothing to do" with the legitimacy of his guardianship.

117 posted on 01/08/2007 4:43:00 PM PST by highball ("I never should have switched from scotch to martinis." -- the last words of Humphrey Bogart)
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To: Sir Francis Dashwood
Perhaps you can tell who does not want treatment by reading their mind? You are a psychic maybe?

When it comes to my wife, I don't need to read her mind (good thing, because she and I both know that I certainly can't). I have the legal right to infer what she would want in such circumstances, based on our private relationship.

The state should keep its grubby paws out of that relationship - they have no right to interfere with family medical decisions. If you don't want your spouse making such decisions on your behalf, that's easy enough to arrange.

118 posted on 01/08/2007 4:45:41 PM PST by highball ("I never should have switched from scotch to martinis." -- the last words of Humphrey Bogart)
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To: T'wit
Guardians have no right either to practice medicine or cause harm or death to their wards. If Michael made the decision, as I noted earlier, he committed murder. That's why he vehemently denies that it was his decision.

Come now, let's keep it clear. Michael's decision was to follow the medical advice of his wife's doctors in regards to her treatment.

You don't have to like the course of treatment that he and her doctors decided to pursue, but that is not particularly material to their decisions. Private family medical decisions should remain just that - private. Not the State's business.

119 posted on 01/08/2007 4:53:52 PM PST by highball ("I never should have switched from scotch to martinis." -- the last words of Humphrey Bogart)
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To: highball
Michael's decision was to follow the medical advice of his wife's doctors in regards to her treatment.

From the court testimony that I have read, Michael lied about that. In fact, on one occasion, the nursing home had to step in and prevent him from killing her. It's all in the court records.

120 posted on 01/08/2007 5:04:00 PM PST by bjs1779
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