Posted on 12/15/2006 1:30:09 PM PST by Diana in Wisconsin
I am sure different businesses have different practices, but my point is that it is not unusual for some water to be in the bottom of the tank, but it does not affect the gasoline, regardless if it is from the "top quarter" or the "bottom quarter".
Also those who are pointing out that the temperature is constant in underground tanks, are correct.
Notice they aren't saying anything about the trucks that transport fuel - the owners have to *eat* the shrinkage that temperature fluctuations cause, and it's not insignificant.
Why 60 degrees? If the dealer heats the gasoline inside the pump he might increase the volume, but that seems like something a little beyond what would be expected of a gas station owner.
Isn't fuel weight used in aircraft more for weight and balance?
Not in warm states where it rarely if ever goes below 60F
so if we are talking 20 cents per tank for 20 gallons per tank, assuming an averate of two tanks per week times 52 weeks equals a whopping 20.80 dollars per year.
There is no incentive for this since the TAXES are by volume too.
>>>Underground tanks are at a constant ~65 degrees, just about everywhere, I think...<<<
There is some variation, depending on the overall climate, but you are in the ball park. Our basement in Pennsylvania ranges from about 50 in the winter, to about 65 in the summer; but a small portion of the basement is above ground. Tanks buried below the frost line will maintain relatively constant temperature year round, generally 50 to 55 degrees.
BTW, you can save a ton of money on air conditioning by rejecting heat into the cool ground, rather than the hot air. With a ground source heat pump you can save on both heating and cooling.
You are correct. Fuel volume in underground tank changes in changing temps, and the temp of fuel delivered is also part of this equation. I used to check our 10 K tank every day, including the temp.
The gas was pumped thru chilled lines that were close to 50 degrees and during the winter the fuel in the tankers was closer to 40 degrees. That meant the depth of the tank was less than the actual tank gage showed.
There were many times the fuel expanded underground during the summer. We had people filling their tanks with 55 or so temp fuel and had fuel coming out of their gas caps within minutes.
Well, I am repeating what a friend that was in the business for years relayed to me. He was always concerned about buying water when he purchased large quantities to replenish his stock for resale. I understand gas and water are no miscible but, additives change the picture. One of the major problems with ethanol addition is that water and ethanol mix readily. Since ethanol is now present as an additive in many states water in fuel is more of a problem than previously.
But, when one considers the millions of tankfulls every day, the 80 cents per tank is enough to make a law firm's partners rich beyond all imagination.
But not enough to get a single consumer a refund...
This is nothing less than a bald-faced money-grab -- legal extortion -- like most "class-action" suits.
Your right, thank you vary much
What do you think of that, NYT?
That is not the case. I just posted another reply here saying that the fuel temp in the supply lines is chilled. We had fuel coming into the tank farms that was anywhere from 40 degrees in the winter to almost 70 degrees in the summer.
I can attest that the temperature in underground tanks is NEVER constant. It changes depending on the depth of the tank, soil composition and the material covering the tank.
It would be difficult to improve on that observation.
There is a change in the volume of gasoline, fuel oil, kerosene, etc with temperature. This change can occur at any stage of the distribution process.
The consumer purchases gas from an underground storage tank that usually maintains a temperature between 50-57 degrees Fahrenheit. For the most part the consumer's storage tank is the fuel tank provided by the vehicle’s manufacturer. The volume will vary according to the ambient temperature.
This means that the consumer can have more or less gasoline by volume than the volume he paid for at the pump. If you doubt this you only need fill your car’s tank to the top on a hot summer day and then let it sit. The fuel’s temperature will increase and the tank will overflow. The car’s manufacturer and the gas distributors usually warn the motorist of this fact. The opposite is true if you buy gas at the pump and the ambient temperature is 20 below zero.
consumers get less energy for each gallon they buy.
The only time the fuel actually gives up energy is when it burns. What is the temperature that gasoline burns in an internal combustion engine?
accusing them of overcharging customers at the pump
The lawsuit seems to insinuate that actual fraud is being committed even though every state’s department of weights and measures has for decades approved this method of gasoline delivery.
So again, I agree with you; what an asinine lawsuit.
Right, the expanding usually happens after the gas is in the tank, thats why when its hot outside I make sure the attendant doesn't "top off" the tank. I've had gas expand right out onto the ground before while sitting in the sun.
I know a guy who used to write software for gas pumps. Many of them ALREADY factor in the temperature when calculating the volume of gas pumped. I'd be very curious to know if the people filing the lawsuit know this - if they don't, they could have their arse handed to them in court when those facts come out...
ping
Underground tanks are at a constant ~65 degrees, just about everywhere, I think...
Fuel delivered to tank farms is usually at or near 50 degrees and the temperature of the underground tanks varies from near 60 - 85 degrees in central Texas. That was one thing I hated having to do, was to lower a brass thermometer into the tank and have to wait a certain amount of time to get the fuel temp. You had about 10 seconds to record the temps, once the gas hit the outside air.
Gasoline expands quite a bit in higher temps. We had gasoline in an underground tank hit right at 40 degrees after a delivery in 1986 when the outside temps stayed in the single digits for more than one day.
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