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Family Speaks Out About Cub Scout's Death
CBS ^

Posted on 12/05/2006 5:50:04 PM PST by Coleus

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1 posted on 12/05/2006 5:50:07 PM PST by Coleus
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To: Coleus
Wow! CBS mentioned Christmas!!!

Too bad it had to be in reference to a terrible happening.

....or...was that the intent?

We report, you decide.

FMCDH(BITS)

2 posted on 12/05/2006 5:57:38 PM PST by nothingnew (I fear for my Republic due to marxist influence in our government. Open eyes/see)
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To: Coleus
Very tragic indeed. Who could ever expect something like this to happen. Portsmouth is just 25 minutes from my home and this is something that EVERYONE around here is talking about.

I also heard about a little girl just the other week in Maine that got run over by a float in a parade. Fortunately she survived. You'll soon see railings on all floats in parades or the end of children riding on floats.
3 posted on 12/05/2006 6:00:44 PM PST by MaDeuce (Do it to them, before they do it to you! (MaDeuce = M2HB .50 BMG))
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To: Coleus
Looking at the picture of the float at the link, I don’t think I would have let my nine year old get on that thing.

There are no hand hold and no guard rails. Nine year olds are too fidgety to be on a float like that.

One pothole and some kid is going to roll off.

4 posted on 12/05/2006 6:03:23 PM PST by Pontiac (All are worthy of freedom, none are incapable.)
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Boy Scout Death  Thomas Fogarty

9-year-old Thomas Fogarty was riding on the float with his Cub Scout troop moments before he was killed.

Fogarty died after he was run over by this float in Portsmouth's annual holiday parade Saturday.


5 posted on 12/05/2006 6:08:43 PM PST by Coleus ("God hates moderates, Revelation 3:15-16")
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To: SandRat

ping


6 posted on 12/05/2006 6:10:19 PM PST by beaversmom
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To: Coleus

OMG, I can't imagine dealing with something like this as a parent or the person who was driving/pulling the float. I have a 9 year old that is a Cub Scout and I would die if anything happened to him.


7 posted on 12/05/2006 6:12:41 PM PST by mykdsmom (Never argue with someone who's opinion you don't respect!)
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To: Coleus
I'm so, so sorry to learn about this young boy's tragic death.

As an aside, a float in the local Christmas parade in Anderson, SC this past weekend was driven by an extremely drunk driver, who once through the parade route, was said to have driven off at about 50-60 MPH with a number of children and adults on the float screaming for him to stop; the float was said to have become airborne when it bumped over a train track. The driver was arrested and faces a number of charges including child endangerment, kidnapping, DWI, and a number of others. Fortunately, no one was hurt...this could have been a disaster of the worst magnitude.

8 posted on 12/05/2006 6:15:37 PM PST by nfldgirl ("I love a good rant every now-n-then!")
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To: Coleus

How horrible. Our cub scout pack wouldn't allow the boys to ride on any floats, etc., for fear of this very thing happening.

I can't imagine the pain of losing a young man like this. Extra prayers being said tonight for this family.


9 posted on 12/05/2006 6:31:39 PM PST by craig_eddy
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To: Coleus

From BSA National Standards / SAFETY.....

"Parade Floats and Hayrides
The BSA rule prohibiting the transportation of passengers in the backs of trucks or on trailers may be tempered for parade floats or hayrides, provided that the following points are strictly followed to prevent injuries:

1. Transportation to and from the parade or hayride site is not allowed on the truck or trailer.

2. Those persons riding, whether seated or standing, must be able to hold on to something stationary.

3. Legs should not hang over the side.

4. Flashing lights must illuminate a vehicle used for a hayride after dark, or the vehicle must be followed by a vehicle with flashing lights."


Looks like the local Scout folks have some explaining to do if requirements #2 and/or #3 were not complied with...


10 posted on 12/05/2006 6:44:23 PM PST by UPcrawfish
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To: UPcrawfish

Yes, and from what I see in the picture, the float was pretty crappy. I looks like the kids made it. I guess since the float was so low to the ground they thought that nobody would get hurt. It's such a tragedy.


11 posted on 12/05/2006 6:55:10 PM PST by Coleus ("God hates moderates, Revelation 3:15-16")
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To: UPcrawfish
Looks like the local Scout folks have some explaining to do ...

Indeed. Just like those other Boy Scout deaths.

12 posted on 12/05/2006 7:27:20 PM PST by newzjunkey (Prepare. President Rodham, 01-20-09.)
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To: Coleus

This is SO SAD!
Prayers for the family!!!!


13 posted on 12/05/2006 7:29:19 PM PST by Muzzle_em (A proud warrior of the Pajamahadeen)
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To: Coleus

I don't see any safety railing. Is that just an optical illusion?


14 posted on 12/05/2006 7:32:02 PM PST by newzjunkey (Prepare. President Rodham, 01-20-09.)
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To: RonF; AppauledAtAppeasementConservat; Looking for Diogenes; Congressman Billybob; Pan_Yans Wife; ...

15 posted on 12/05/2006 7:35:30 PM PST by SandRat (Duty, Honor, Country. What else needs to be said?)
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To: mykdsmom

Me neither. How devastating to everyone. I have two cubs and am even wearing my leader uniform now as I just got home from a den meeting.


16 posted on 12/05/2006 7:53:54 PM PST by cyclotic (Support Cub Scouting-Raising boys to be men, and politically incorrect at the same time.)
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To: UPcrawfish; Coleus

If it turns out that the local Scout unit did not comply with the BSA's standards, then the BSA will not support the unit or it's sponsor should they be sued, nor will the BSA's liability insurance be available.


17 posted on 12/06/2006 11:49:38 AM PST by RonF
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To: RonF
If it turns out that the local Scout unit did not comply with the BSA's standards, then the BSA will not support the unit or it's sponsor should they be sued, nor will the BSA's liability insurance be available.

How can the BSA's liability insurance not be available? Even if the local unit didn't comply with the BSA's standards, they were still part of the organization. The BSA is responsible for having safety guidelines. They are just as responsible for putting people in leadership positions. If those people were ignoring the rules of the BSA, shouldn't the BSA have done something about it?
18 posted on 12/06/2006 11:55:21 AM PST by Stone Mountain
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To: RonF
Their insurance stinks anyway, I know someone who broke his arm and two years later he is still having problems with payments. It required surgery and therapy and the BSA's insurance doesn't want to pay for everything.
19 posted on 12/06/2006 1:59:53 PM PST by Coleus (Roe v. Wade and Endangered Species Act both passed in 1973, Murder Babies/save trees, geese, algae)
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To: Stone Mountain
How can the BSA's liability insurance not be available? Even if the local unit didn't comply with the BSA's standards, they were still part of the organization. The BSA is responsible for having safety guidelines.

The BSA has safety guidelines. They require that each time a unit does any activity other than meeting at their normal meeting place, the unit must file a Tour Permit. That Tour Permit includes a signature space where one of the leaders going on the trip certifies that they have a copy of the BSA's "Guide to Safe Scouiting" (available at their Service Centers and on their web site for free) and have read it. The unit is obliged to conform to the policies in the Guide (a.k.a. 'G2SS'), and are told that one of the conditions to having protection from the BSA's liability insurance is that the activity where the liability comes from is conducted in conformance with the G2SS. This is doubtless a condition imposed by the insurance company - they won't pay unless the incident occurred while the activity complied with the G2SS. It's not the BSA making the call here.

They are just as responsible for putting people in leadership positions.

Actually, no. They are not. Leaders for Packs, Troops, Crews, etc. are recruited and chosen by the unit sponsor, not by the BSA. It is the reponsibility of the sponsor to know who the people are that they are choosing to be leaders for the children of the community. If they don't know them and have a good judgement of their character and ability, they're not supposed to sign them up. The BSA does run a nation-wide legal check to see if there are any protection orders or felony convictions, DUI's, child endangerment or other such things on the person's records (using the applicant's Social Security number and driver's licence), but that's all they can do. It's the sponsor's job to hire, supervise, and fire leaders.

If those people were ignoring the rules of the BSA, shouldn't the BSA have done something about it?

How would the BSA know? The BSA has about 4000 professional staff. All the other members are either Scouts or volunteer Scouters (Scouters being Cubmasters, Den Leaders, etc.). How would the BSA be aware that a Pack has put some kids onto a float that had no railings or safety restraints, especially at the very time of the parade itself?

The BSA provides program materials, training materials, guidelines, etc. to community organizations so that they can conduct the Scouting program. The BSA itself does not conduct that program and has no way of doing so. It's up to the community organization to see that it's run properly. If someone tells the local BSA organization that they know that a particular organization is ignoring policies, then the BSA can and does investigate and do what it can to correct the situation, including pulling the sponsor's unit charters. But there's no way for it to observe all the activities of the tens of thousands of sponsoring organizations and units in real time, nor is there any way for it to conduct investigations, outside of what's available in legal records, of every single individual that volunteers for Scouting. That's the sponsors' job; that's what they agree to when they sign a charter agreement and the Adult Application.

20 posted on 12/07/2006 9:05:32 AM PST by RonF
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