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To: padre35
"This is the harvest of secular humanism, no hope and idiots prowling the streets."

Well I see the correlation to income, and to race, and to age. Where exactly did you see any indication what so ever that this has anything to do with religion or lack of it.

The fact that the Chinese and Indian students did significantly better would point to a different interpretation of religious influence (if any) than you seem to be making.
6 posted on 11/14/2006 8:25:54 PM PST by ndt
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To: ndt

Immigrants typically do well for a time, and later there growth levels out.

Now for the resident children, what call to discipline or even knowledge or even self esteem is there?

Especially if one has a poverty background.

After all, the State will keep you alive at a subsistence level, and if that is all you have known, why change?


7 posted on 11/14/2006 8:35:56 PM PST by padre35 (We are surrounded, that simplifies our problem Chesty Puller)
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To: ndt; padre35

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1521756/posts

Minorities break 'class barrier'


Young people from working class ethnic minorities tend to out-perform their white counterparts, says a report.
Research into 140,000 children over 30 years found immigrant families breaking through class barriers, the Joseph Rowntree Foundation said.

Half of children from Indian working class families went into professional or managerial posts, compared with 43% of white children, it found.

But Pakistani and Bangladeshi children did worse than some white children.

Some 45% of those from Caribbean backgrounds also obtained professional or managerial posts, the study found.

The study into the success of ethnic minority children, many the sons and daughters of immigrants or born overseas themselves, looked at their lives over three decades, with the help of official statistics.

It suggested parents encouraging their children to get educated was one of the factors playing a key role in their success.

Academics at the University of Essex used national statistics to track what happened to 140,000 people born in England and Wales since the 1960s.

The study found proportionally more ethnic minority children appeared able to do better than their parents.

The report attributed this to their parents encouraging them to stick at education.

'Under-performance'

However, those from Pakistani and Bangladeshi communities were found to under-perform compared with white children from working class families.

"The Pakistanis [tracked in the figures] were less likely to end up in professional/managerial families even when taking their backgrounds and their own educational level into account," said the report.

While there appeared to be clear educational and social reasons for the poor performance of some Bangladeshi children, said the report, it was harder to explain the lack of social mobility in Pakistani children.

The report suggested two factors played a key role in explaining success.

Firstly, children of working class immigrants tended to be motivated by their parents, a phenomenon reported in other studies.

While some immigrants initially do economically worse on arrival in a country, because only the poorest paid jobs are available, many of those who stay see their children do a lot better because of encouragement to work hard at school.

Secondly, the report suggested the upward mobility had been helped by the expansion of Britain's service industry at the expense of manual jobs - meaning there was "more room at the top" for those who aspired to reach it.

Lucinda Platt, of Essex University, the report's author, found Jews and Hindus had more chance of upward mobility than Christians.

In contrast, Muslims and Sikhs had less chance of breaking through class barriers. Children born into professional and managerial families, regardless of their ethnicity, were less likely to find themselves in less qualified work than their parents.

"Britain is still a long way from being a meritocracy where social class no longer plays a part in determining children's chances of well-paid careers," said Dr Platt.

"There is good news to the extent that a disproportionate number of the young people who are upwardly mobile are the children of parents who came to this country as migrants.

"But their welcome progress is no cause for complacency, especially when it appears to be so much harder for young people from Pakistani or Bangladeshi families to get ahead."



Indians breaking class barriers in the UK


The Times of India ^ | Monday, November 14, 2005 09:07:16


LONDON: Second-generation Indian immigrants are breaking their adopted country's class barriers with consistent ease and steaming ahead of much of white, black and brown Britain, new research has found.

The research, which tracked 140,000 children born in England and Wales over a 30-year period, found that a massive 56 per cent second-generation Indians sailed over class barriers and went into professional or managerial posts, compared with just per cent of white children.

In a further breakdown of what it called the "Indian success story", the study added that Being Hindu or Jewish enhanced the probability of a professional/managerial class outcome, other things being equal, while being Muslim, Sikh or from a religious group other than the main religions made such a destination less likely".

However, the study admitted that today's immigrant successes could not discount the reality and dreadful toll of the so-called "ethnic penalty" levied on newer, foreign-origin claimants for jobs and positions.

The research said two-thirds of British Pakistani and Bangladeshi children remained static and at the same working class levels of their parents, thus languishing at the bottom of the UK's social and economic mobility ladder.

The study, commissioned by the Joseph Rowntree Foundation and conducted by Essex University sociologist Dr Lucinda Platt, is considered one of the most comprehensive attempts to track ethnic minority "life chances" in the world of Western opportunity. Platt concluded that the differing levels of South Asian success makes for caution "in what we claim for 'ethnicity' and what we attribute to it".

Platt said it was indisputable that British Indians were taking full advantage of the fact that an expansion in professional and managerial occupations over the past 30 years had created more "room at the top". But she cautioned that the "welcome progress" of Indians and Afro-Caribbeans was "no cause for complacency (because) Britain is still a long way from being a meritocracy where social class plays no part in determining children's chances of well-paid careers".


17 posted on 11/14/2006 10:56:23 PM PST by CarrotAndStick (The articles posted by me needn't necessarily reflect my opinion.)
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To: ndt
Well I see the correlation to income, and to race, and to age. Where exactly did you see any indication what so ever that this has anything to do with religion or lack of it. The fact that the Chinese and Indian students did significantly better would point to a different interpretation of religious influence (if any) than you seem to be making.

Indians and CHinese tend to have strong family values and are deeply religious (whether that religion be Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism, Christianity or others). The poor working class whites in Britain are not Christian -- I knew many who had no clue what Christmas was about except a time to go to a church for a few minutes before getting p*ss drunk.
27 posted on 11/15/2006 8:27:52 AM PST by Cronos ("Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faith, but to become dominant" - Omar Ahmed, CAIR)
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