Posted on 10/12/2006 11:02:51 AM PDT by stm
WASHINGTON - Hollywood may have to tone down its portrayal of the military’s screaming, in-your-face boot camp drill sergeant. In today’s Army, shouting is out and a calmer approach to molding young minds is in, says the head of Pentagon personnel. The Army says it has reduced by nearly 7 percent the number of recruits who wash out in the first six to 12 months of military life.
(Excerpt) Read more at msnbc.msn.com ...
I was one of those 50s/60s kids you're talking about and you're dead wrong about us. We were not complacent automatons, blinded to the lies and contradictions around us. I was there, you weren't and you're wrong about us.
That I can't disagree with.
My buddy in the Navy was brought up on Sexual Harassment charges because of what one female told another female he said about her. Crazy.
Yes, from the ridiculous Clinton era "Army of One" to "Army Tough".
By definition an Army is a team, so an Army of One, made little sense.
OoAh
Or they never let them in the Army in the first place.
I don't think for one second the Gunny would ever talk like that.
One of my biggest screw ups in Boot camp was to sneak a camera in. I originally brought it, but they told me to ship it home. Since my parents had moved out of the country, I had nowhere to ship it, so I stashed it in an air-conditioner duct over in the hallway near the showers.
Well, about 3 weeks later, we are doing a top-to-bottom cleaning of the barracks for some big-wig inspection, and some yokel gets the idea that he should clean the air-conditioning vent out...like they are going to inspect way up inside there...and he finds my camera. "Hey, look what I found!" he exclaims to the CC.
The CC, holding my $200 camera (which was a LOT back then) says "Who's camera is this?"
Well, I would have kept quiet but I didn't want to lose the camera... So I admitted it was mine.
Fortunately for me, he decided NOT to write me up, but instead ordered me to volunteer for UDT Seals. That meant that every night for the remainder of boot camp, I had to go do an extra 2 hours of calesthenics when everyone else was in their bunks.
I was 6'1" and weighed 145 pounds. I showed up the first night for calesthenics and the DI called off a list of names and when he was done, asked if he missed anyone. I raised my hand. He asked who I was and I yelled "Airman Recruit XXXX volunteering for the UDT Seals SIR!!!"
He took one look at my skinny a55 and said "Get the F*CK OUT OF HERE!!!" at which point, I ran back to the barracks and hid in the bushes until my 2 hrs was up. Every night for the rest of boot camp, I went out and hid in the bushes and smoked a few cigs...never got caught!
He actually let me keep the camera and I got a bunch of photos from boot camp that I don't think many people get to have.
I went to officer basic at McClellan exactly eight months after enlisted basic, and most of my drill sergeants were still with the same company. I had to convince the one who was the meanest son of a b!tch to stop calling me sir every other word, especially since I still didn't know a tenth of what he knew.
No one said you were. You (and I) however, are more likely to accept the pronouncements of authority more readily than kids today.
I would never trade that time or the feeling you have, in Basic.
Like suddenly, you are not in Control! The TI is! I was in the 1000 Man Dorm next to the F-84 display. Was it 3744 BMTS? Dec 74 to Feb 75, 6 weeks.
We had a substitute TI for the underwear stamping, and I can't remember if anybody messed up. But the ritual Dog Tag chain assembly the first night was messed up by somebody.
The TI grabbed this guys dog tag chain, and pulled his face within inches of his mouth and said "Are you a DUMB A##?" The guy was shaking like a leaf, LOL!
My biggest mistake was getting out. I made Staff in 3.5 years.
But back then I knew everything! LOL!
That's most likely true.
Well... perhaps. My younger brother and I were both volunteers. But we were also both going to be drafted.
There was a very obvious pattern when I was in college. People would lose their II-S college draft deferment in the middle of the term for no apparent reason. Somehow the "paperwork" didn't get straightened out until after the potential draftee had passed the physical. Magically the deferment reappeared.
Then, if the deferred left school, he was likely to be drafted in days and find himself in boot camp.
Even my kid-brother, the youngest of us, volunteered. In his case, he had no job prospects and wanted to get married. Real bad. So he got married, real bad.
As for the treatment in boot camp, it didn't take two brain cells to figure out that the sargeants were working very hard to make us miserable. As soon as we started getting off the bus, one of the recruits dropped a cigarette butt and stomped on it. Right away I knew that this would be the trigger for the beginning of boot camp. We spent the next hour policing the parking lot while "duck-walking".
Those who think the mistreatment makes people respond better under pressure should consider the following: About four days prior to beginning live fire with our rifles, everything eased up. Less yelling. Fewer victims of minor transgressions. More time in the mess hall to eat.
Even Army sargeants know that you don't want to be handing rifles and ammunition to somebody who hates your guts.
I made it a personal goal to try to make it through boot camp as the "invisible" recruit. Other than roll calls, my goal was to never be addressed by anybody. I wasn't successful.
With just 17 days to go out of 56, I was so delirious from fever that I was doing bayonet twirls in the wrong direction. That will get the sargeant's attention.
Getting sick meant extra duty and repeating part of basic training. Nobody wanted that. The day I arrived home on leave after basic, my temperature was 104.5. I was just well enough a week later to report back from leave.
Does not matter what service, we still come up with similar stories.
And we laugh our asses off!
I was in one of the first coed Basic Training classes at Ft. Leonard Wood in Nov., 1994. Although I was the oldest soldier in my platoon (32 Years old), it was by only a few months. There were several trainees older than me in the company.
I rather enjoyed Basic. I worked my ass off getting into shape, scared that the teenagers would be leaving me behind. Instead, most of the recruits were couch potatoes that the Drill Sergeants had to build up slowly, so I had a physically easy time of it. I scored a 240 on my initial PT test so the DS's pretty much left me alone. Also, being in an older group like I was (several College gradutes and in their mid to late-20's), the DS's wouldn't go out of their way to smoke the ever-living crap out of us. I greatly respected the Drill Sergeants here because we were learning Basic COMBAT training and all were combat veterans of the Gulf War or Panama. Plus, because I was squared away and wasn't a screwup (a lot of older recruits get a chip on their shoulder at having someone always telling them what to do, and I didn't), several of the Drills would talk regular to me (if there wasn't anyone else around, including a big, nasty one nicknamed "Mongo").
I had a 20 week AIT (51-Tango, Soil Sampler-Surveyor-CADD draftsman). Didn't like the Drill Sergeants here at all. They seemed to be screwups, and the one in charge of my class was just divorced, two years younger than me, and had some serious mid-life issues going on (what with hitting on the girl recruits). Liked the classes but disliked having to live in a barracks with the Drills.
Got out of the Nat'l. Guard in 2000.
>>>I joined the USAF during Viet Nam and ended up having a "basic training" that was led by a Marine DI that had just come out of early retirement and joined the USAF....<<<
Boot Camp was rough during the Viet Nam War. In fact, it was 8 weeks of hell. But, looking back, I believe it was 8 weeks every red-blooded American male should experience.
Before the "Army of One" nonsense, the big red flag was the black beret nonsense. Before Clinton, the black beret meant one thing - Rangers. What's next, handing out Olympic Gold Medals simply for getting through watered down PT?
Great Lakes RTC winter 1976 they did both no big deal. It got rid of the moron who shined his boondockers with his stencil pencil. Most of the company made it maybe 10 washed out and out of the 10 about 5 were medical reasons. The CC had very good reasons for yelling. It took me a few years later to appreciate what some of his mind games and screaming did for me.
The kinder gentler military nonsense has to stop. BTW it was in a time morale was the pits. I went in at the end of the Ford/Rummy era and all but 3 months of the Carter Hollow Military. Well truth is Rummy was the grand designer of it and it was Sec of the Navy Edward Hidalgo 24 Oct 1979 - 20 Jan 1981 who likely started the actual Navy turnaround by using the idea that if you wanted sailors to be sailors treat them as such. That meant return to tradition including bosuns whistles, Cracker Jacks, Fleet Reserve Lifers {The Old Salts to come back in on a volunteer basis to restore some pride} morale, and discipline. Had the CC's not been rough many even the ones who stuck it out may had took a notion to say No I don't feel like it and walk off.
Rummy's military under Ford was if it hurts your feelings to stay then go UA for 30 days and then back your home to stay. There are quite a few 1975-1978 ex-squids with General DC's walking around. Discipline didn't fall apart at basic it fell apart at command. Nobody mentions that much. Strange nobody walked away right after basic though. It usually happened on the ship about 6 months or so later.
Basic Training has special rules for verbal abuse for a good reason. Besides what I went through in basic as far as hazing etc was nothing compared to kissing The Royal Babies Belly and then the snipe's initiation. Yea they did do that. LOL what could they do to me after that? Put me on a carrier and send me to the MED for 6 months? Basic has to be tough. When it hits the fan there will be yelling and screaming. Men may be dying right in front of you yelling and screaming and you better be able to cope and respond automatically. You saw the fire training footage didn't you? Or is that now not PC to show what can happen if you don't respond correctly.
They can yell, scream, cuss, fuss, have you thinking they are the devils spawn. But they also know when and where to do it. The first few weeks is an absolute must. After service week most start easing off because the company is working as a group. He can send the Company with the RPOC to march the company to class alone. If company screws up though going or coming watch out.
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