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Networking: Protecting your MP3s
UPI ^ | July 25, 2006 | UPI

Posted on 07/24/2006 11:30:45 AM PDT by 2Jim_Brown

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To: Bloody Sam Roberts

Hymn won't work with iTunes 6.x.


21 posted on 07/24/2006 12:11:33 PM PDT by Izzy Dunne (Hello, I'm a TAGLINE virus. Please help me spread by copying me into YOUR tag line.)
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To: Syntyr
"and back up in normal mp3 format to CD or DVD."

Why? Hard disks are so cheap now, and USB 2.0 adapters readily available... and so much faster than burning to a CD or DVD. I rotate four external 100GB hard disks and do a full copy once a month. Even if one whole drive dies, I still have three more copies.

22 posted on 07/24/2006 12:20:13 PM PDT by AbeKrieger (A school will never be better than the parents who send their children there.)
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To: spinestein
Or maybe, because I care about quality, I don't play important audio if comes with an mp3 extension and I don't play important video if it comes with an mpg extension. It's bad enough having to play most stuff on CD and DVD format without having to crap it up further by compressing the hell out of it.

Technically, MPEG does not imply compression. It is a container format and uncompressed MPEG formats are used in some places. That said, there are several common standard MPEG formats that essentially require compression e.g. the consumer ones.

And while I think video compression is quite noticeable in consumer formats (which tend to universally suck), the same is not true of audio formats. At sufficiently high bitrates of the type commonly available to consumers, compressed audio is essentially indistinguishable from uncompressed versions. Even very high-end consumer listening environments rarely do better than 10-bits of real resolution regardless of the source material, and at some compression level all the artifacts fall below that noise floor. Which makes the source format largerly irrelevant, since very high-end professional analog sources give you around 12-bits and a standard audio CD does 16-bits, assuming that fidelity is maintained in the signal path. There used to be a lot of problems with 16-bit audio fidelity, but high-end gear can do about 20-bits pristinely with ease these days -- which is all anyone needs as a source no matter what you are doing. Higher bit-depths are useful primarily for preventing the accumulation of signal processing rounding errors -- you cannot actually produce an output signal at higher depths with fidelity.

Unless you are talking about some of the more exotic/professional 24/96 formats, there is nothing that produces a signal with more fidelity than the common audio CD if it was created with vaguely recent mastering gear. Even the finest professional analog recordings run around 12-bits, and most "analog" recordings have far less resolution in reality.

With video, the difference between raw D5 High-Def or even DigiBeta and the ISO MPEG-2 streams on a DVD is like night and day, a practical limitation of storage capacity. For audio, it is all the same after a certain low bar, even in precision monitoring environments.

23 posted on 07/24/2006 12:25:48 PM PDT by tortoise
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To: 2Jim_Brown

Back up your MP3 and JPG files frequently and store the back-ups remotely from your computer. I put my digital photo back ups as well as my photo negatives in a safety deposit box so even if my home burns to the ground, I don't lose my photos. Be sure to use high quality or archival CDs or DVDs for your back ups as the cheap no name type can start to lose data in a matter of months. Don't forget to keep your back ups abreast of the new technology ..having data backed up on some obsolete media or in a no longer available format may be as bad as losing your data altogether.


24 posted on 07/24/2006 1:12:45 PM PDT by The Great RJ ("Mir wölle bleiwen wat mir sin" or "We want to remain what we are." ..Luxembourg motto)
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To: Izzy Dunne
Hymn won't work with iTunes 6.x.

Didn't know that. I only used it a few times when I first tried iTunes way back when it came out.

I hated it and removed it from my system. Haven't missed it.

25 posted on 07/24/2006 1:52:13 PM PDT by Bloody Sam Roberts (I can't complain...but sometimes I still do.)
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To: tortoise
[Even very high-end consumer listening environments rarely do better than 10-bits of real resolution regardless of the source material, and at some compression level all the artifacts fall below that noise floor. Which makes the source format largerly irrelevant, since very high-end professional analog sources give you around 12-bits and a standard audio CD does 16-bits, assuming that fidelity is maintained in the signal path.]


I see this being stated in so many places and with the numbers to back up the theory, and I used to just accept it, but a few years ago I got into live audio recording and processing and my own actual experience badly contradicts this. In my own home studio I have decent (but not really expensive) consumer grade amps and speakers for playback and If I compare simultaneous recordings I make of a musician playing live onto:

- cassette tape
- 1/4" reel to reel (analog) tape
- hi-end digital recorder at CD quality (16bit/44.1khz)
- hi end digital recorder at higher quality (24 bit/96khz)

I find that the worst to best quality is in this order:

#1) cassette tape is the most distorted (hiss, pitch anomalies, mistracking)
#2) digital CD quality is better, but suffers from digital distortions like quantization error and aliasing especially noticeable at high frequencies
#3) the 1/4" reel to reel and the digital 24/96 suffer from the same problems as their lower quality counterparts (#1 and #2) but a lot less so.

In short, high quality digital wins with signal to noise ratio but high quality analog wins by producing less objectionable distortions. These distortions are not just noticeable, but obvious to the average person listening to side by side comparisons of a 24/96 recording versus an otherwise identical 16/44.1 recording.
26 posted on 07/24/2006 2:00:09 PM PDT by spinestein (Follow "The Bronze Rule")
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To: spinestein
In short, high quality digital wins with signal to noise ratio but high quality analog wins by producing less objectionable distortions.

Analog tape, even the good stuff, has very noticeable noise in a good monitoring environment but you are correct that it sounds a lot less objectionable than converter crunch. It should not be an issue anymore, but it never ceases to surprise me how much good gear has crappy converters. I've used nominally decent 24-bit converters that noticeably added artifacts (e.g. the MOTU units) and have also used 20-bit board converters (e.g. Panasonic digital mixers) that were incredibly sweet and transparent. Effectively artifact-free conversion is possible, but it is rare in anything but expensive units. Older expensive units with lower digital specs often produce better audio than cheaper newer units with very high digital specs. 16-bit can beat 24-bit for "clean" depending on gear quality. That said, the average bar continues to slowly improve. Crappy converters anywhere in the chain tend be audible, hence the value of using a single set of excellent converters and doing everything else in the digital domain -- no need to trust that every manufacturer in the signal chain to use the finest quality parts and engineering.

However, when most places master a digital recording (usually from 24-bit source these days) they will usually add an artificial analog noise floor somewhere in the 16-20 bit resolution range to cover any converter artifacts in the source itself since the extreme low bits don't have much use anyway. The "sound" of the analog noise floor is easily reproduced in software, but digital gear does not do it naturally.

27 posted on 07/24/2006 2:19:12 PM PDT by tortoise
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To: tortoise

And then there's video...........

</:^)


28 posted on 07/24/2006 2:34:04 PM PDT by spinestein (Follow "The Bronze Rule")
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To: AbeKrieger

"Why? Hard disks are so cheap now, and USB 2.0 adapters readily available... and so much faster than burning to a CD or DVD. I rotate four external 100GB hard disks and do a full copy once a month. Even if one whole drive dies, I still have three more copies."

Exactly why I use a Network Attached Storage system. I have a small box I created as a server. Then I have a Terabyte NAS. It came with some cheapy software that allows me to automatically copy the directories I want from my PC to the server. Then once a week I have teh server scan itself and copy over to the NAS.

And its pretty quick over my 100 mbps ethernet network.

I had a Drive fail and had to spend 500 to get it back. Since then I dont trust just one drive or cds!


29 posted on 07/24/2006 3:59:14 PM PDT by Syntyr (Food for the NSA Line Eater -> "terrorist" "bomb" "plot" "kill" "overthrow" "coup de tas")
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To: 2Jim_Brown

Better solution ... buy two drives, and external USB hard drive carrier and use it as a backup.


30 posted on 07/24/2006 4:05:11 PM PDT by Centurion2000 (You can't qualify war in harsher terms than I will. War is cruelty, and you cannot refine it-Sherman)
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To: tortoise
16-bit can beat 24-bit for "clean" depending on gear quality.

The quality of the analog front-end and digital pre-processing can have more impact on quality than the "number of bits", just as the quality of optics on a camera affects quality more than the number of megapixels.

31 posted on 07/24/2006 4:42:05 PM PDT by supercat (Sony delenda est.)
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To: USFRIENDINVICTORIA
If you don't have a spare computer; you can use an external hard drive to store things you want to keep safe.

External drives are a great, but I've got a funny story about them:

My shop got flooded last year in the fourth "100 year flood" in 10 years. I had some warning beforehand, so I put my valuables up off the floor beforehand. I didn't lose much because of my precautions, but I did lose one thing: you guessed it--the external backup hard drive! I forgot to pull it out of the bottom shelf of a cabinet.

32 posted on 07/24/2006 5:47:41 PM PDT by randog (What the...?!)
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To: Blue Jays
Hi All-

For a second I thought the headline said "protecting your MP5" which would definitely be a departure from the norm.

~ Blue Jays ~

33 posted on 07/24/2006 5:51:28 PM PDT by Blue Jays (Rock Hard, Ride Free)
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To: tortoise

A lot of equipment gets blamed for the deficiencies of the recording engineer. Two people can use the same equipment and get radically different results.


34 posted on 07/24/2006 5:56:18 PM PDT by js1138 (Well I say there are some things we don't want to know! Important things!")
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To: jdm

35 posted on 07/24/2006 5:57:32 PM PDT by KoRn
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To: randog
...but I did lose one thing: you guessed it--the external backup hard drive! I forgot to pull it out of the bottom shelf of a cabinet.

Unless the coating on the disk delaminated (which I wouldn't expect it to) it should be possible for a data-retrieval company to clean out the drive and get the data. Not a job for amateurs, but probably not a difficult job for a company with the right equipment.

36 posted on 07/24/2006 6:56:20 PM PDT by supercat (Sony delenda est.)
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To: js1138
A lot of equipment gets blamed for the deficiencies of the recording engineer. Two people can use the same equipment and get radically different results.

I've heard some good files at very low bit rates (brag alert: I think A Bird in a Barren Cage (22kbps) turned out very nicely) that sounded better than some files at much higher bit rates. Not all compression routines are equal, even when producing output to feed the same decoder, and some compression routines seem to pick up and amplify minor annoyances in the signal they're fed.

37 posted on 07/24/2006 7:04:07 PM PDT by supercat (Sony delenda est.)
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To: proxy_user
I converted my 700 lps to mp3. Took about 700 hours. Between them and the 1800 cds I have converted I have all my music at my desk and I can run it through the house.
38 posted on 07/24/2006 8:33:07 PM PDT by satchmodog9 (Most people stand on the tracks and never even hear the train coming)
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To: satchmodog9
I have chosen to live in an entirely different universe.


39 posted on 07/24/2006 8:44:45 PM PDT by proxy_user
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