Replies

I agree that it wasn't the Prop per se, it was the insulting rhetoric that accompanied it and that the Calif. GOP continues to engage in -- mostly RINOs like Pete Wilson and Brian Bilbray. They can create majorities for now, but the day is coming when that whole state is lost for good, if it isn't already.

But I should point out that if you're so confident of Hispanic support of Prop 187, you should explain why you think these people are Marxists who come here to undermine our way of life. I think you're contradicting yourself.

I've seen countless violent posts on FR recently pertaining to Hispanic immigrants that really serve no purpose and are, in fact, just stupid.

I'm not some kind of OBL shill. I support building a wall and hitting illegal employers hard -- those two measures, taken together, would cause enough self-deportations that we could effectively deport 5 million illegal aliens by actually deporting only a few hundred thousand. And I'm against forcing a guest-worker program in with the border security measure, it's an immoral abrogation of the government's responsibility to protect us from terorism.

I also don't think that any of these policy measures will necessarily alienate Hispanic voters. I don't think that, among Hispanics who vote -- legal citizens -- immigration is necessarily such a big deal.

But what will alienate them -- and what will make it a big deal -- is the kind of garbage we see every day on FR, typified by this article here and the replies that follow. Countless lies that Hispanics are lazy, they come here to have babies and go on the dole, that they encourage their daughters to get pregnant for their 15th birthday and go on honeymoons with their boyfriends (really, where do people come up with this crap?), and we should shoot them as they come over the border, blah blah blah. And I'm not exaggerating at all, I've seen that last one expressed on FR more than once in the last two weeks.

I'm against people coming here illegally, but I look forward to the day when we have the illegal alien problem under control and we can let more legal immigrants in.

White people just aren't having babies, it's a fact. We are the wealthiest country in the world and sitting at 4.6 percent (full) unemployment. Our citizens here at home are making money hand-over-fist by investing in developing countries that experience growth of 8-10 percent annually, because we have the money and the savvy to do it. So what's there to bitch about? Life is good if you're an American right now. You OWN the world.

Not only that, but our legal population of Hispanics has become more Republican in each of the last four biennial elections, and outside of California, they vote something like 50 percent Republican. Republicans cannot win in FL, NM, or AZ without them, and they can just barely win in TX without them. It is just stupid to write them off, because you can't. You're spitting into the wind, you're fighing gravity, and that means you lose.

Unless you think Congress can abolish welfare this year and push all of the freeloaders in this country into the workforce quickly, you have to acknowledge the need for more workers. Even then, there aren't enough freeloaders to do much for long.

I'd also note that the Mexicans just elected a president who is well to the Right of Bush, yet some of us here write them all off as "Marxists." Immigration isn't an easy issue, but I sure think there's a lot of intellectual dishonesty going on around here.

But I should point out that if you're so confident of Hispanic support of Prop 187, you should explain why you think these people are Marxists who come here to undermine our way of life.

I don't recall saying that.

It is true, though, that the immigrants who come here tend to be less conservative, at least from an economic standpoint, than natural-born Americans.

But I think that has always been the case for immigrants with the possible exception of the Scots.

I think we need more legal immigration, and less illegal immigration.

Also, it wouldn't hurt to diversify our immigration a bit. Why should Filipinos have to wait years and years to immigrate while Latin Americans just walk right in? I think a more diverse immigration policy is wiser from an assimilation standpoint as well.

>> I'd also note that the Mexicans just elected a president who is well to the Right of Bush, yet some of us here write them all off as "Marxists." <<

LMAO! Mexico's previously "conservative" President was a Bill Clinton clone who was well to the LEFT of Bush. If Vicente Fox is Mexico's idea of "conservative", there are no conservatives in that country. The new guy would have to be about 10 times as conservative as his predecessor Vicente Fox just to qualify for "moderate Republican" here.

What's Calderon's position on the WOT? Does he support building up the laughable Mexican millitary? Will he send troops to Iraq? How does he feel about gun rights and self-defense and the lack thereof in Mexico? Does he care more about the "rights" of convicted killers than the unborn, like his predecessor did? Does he even support life in prison for dangerous murderers? (the previous "conservative" President was so liberal on crime he didn't even support that) How's he feel about the welfare state? Assuming he's well to the right of Bush, he'll be perfectly happy if he cut off all government aid to his citizens sneaking into our country, right? How's Calderson feel about the UN? Will he send someone to the UN who tells Kofi to STFU? How's he feel about Cuba, does he support severing ties with the commie government in Cuba and enacting an embargo? How does he feel about traditional marriage laws? Did the new "Catholic" president object to his predecessor marrying his hot young secretary when his first marriage was still official?

Calderson would have to adapt solid stances on all the above issues just to EQUAL Bush's "conservativism". Since I doubt he's adopted a conservative position on any of the above, perhaps you can explain what makes him "well to the right" of Bush.

I'd also note that the Mexicans just elected a president who is well to the Right of Bush....

That's not saying much.

Not only that, but our legal population of Hispanics has become more Republican in each of the last four biennial elections, and outside of California, they vote something like 50 percent Republican.

That's not true.

A leading pollster of Latino voting trends, Sergio Bendixen, found that as of early February, Bush would receive 34 percent Latino support against an unnamed Democratic opponent -- about the same percentage as in 2000. However, Bendixen said, his polling also showed an unnamed Democratic opponent receiving 48 percent of the vote -- far below the mid-60s level Democrats believe they need among Latinos to win the White House.

Bendixen said the biggest issues for U.S. Latinos are education, jobs, health care, the war in Iraq, and immigration. On that last issue, Bendixen said about 42 percent of Latinos favored, while 20 percent opposed, Bush's new proposal to issue work permits to guest workers in the United States, the large majority of them from Mexico. However, opposition to the plan more than doubled when respondents were told most guest workers would have to return to their home countries at the end of three or six years.

A poll released January 8 by the Washington-based Pew Hispanic Center found that Latinos were less supportive of the war in Iraq and of Bush as a re-election candidate than the U.S. general population as a whole. That poll found that about 36 percent of Latinos support Bush's re-election.

Or here.

New Republican Majority?

Or here.

DNC: GOP Hispanic Outreach Falls Flat; Poll Shows Democrats With 59 Percent to 23 Percent Lead if Elections Were Held Today

Show me where the hispanics are voting for more republicans other than Jeb Bush. Hispanics becomoing more conservative is and always has been a myth.

Ask yourself what the next GOP candidate is going to have to offer in order to just keep the 44% that Bush got. And, he was a popular hispanic candidate.

Here is a bit of what Bush promised. It has to do with promising the hispanics that they will be the "new America". What will the next guy have to promise?

Will McCain, George Allen, Mitt Romney or whoever wins have to walk around with a mexican flag?

THE "NEW AMERICAN".....

.....<

We are now one of the largest Spanish-speaking nations in the world. We're a major source of Latin music, journalism and culture.

Just go to Miami, or San Antonio, Los Angeles, Chicago or West New York, New Jersey ... and close your eyes and listen. You could just as easily be in Santo Domingo or Santiago, or San Miguel de Allende.

For years our nation has debated this change -- some have praised it and others have resented it. By nominating me, my party has made a choice to welcome the new America.

As I speak, we are celebrating the success of democracy in Mexico.

George Bush from a campaign speech in Miami, August 2000.

You can read the speech here.

Here is an excerpt of a good critique of that speech:

In equating our intimate historic bonds to our mother country and to Canada with our ties to Mexico, W. shows a staggering ignorance of the civilizational facts of life. The reason we are so close to Britain and Canada is that we share with them a common historical culture, language, literature, and legal system, as well as similar standards of behavior, expectations of public officials, and so on. My Bush Epiphany By Lawrence Auster