Posted on 07/19/2006 7:10:06 AM PDT by white trash redneck
The F-35 (recently named the Lightning II) is due to enter service soon. While the F-22 is widely seen as the ultimate air-to-air machine, the F-35 is described as a multi-role aircraft. How does the F-35 compare in the air-to-air mission against likely competitors like the French Rafale, the Swedish Gripen, and the multi-national Eurofighter?
The Rafale, Gripen, and Eurofighter are all in service or expected to enter service in 2006. All of them boast some of the best electronics suites ever to appear in combat aircraft. All have top speeds approaching 2,000 kilometers an hour. All three aircraft carry excellent beyond-visual-range missiles (like the Mica, AMRAAM, and Meteor). All are highly maneuverable. But will they be better than the F-35 in a fight?
The answer, surprisingly, is probably not. The F-35 has one big advantage over these three fighters from Europe. Its radar signature is very small – as is the case with the F-117 and F-22. Given that its speed is comparable to the European jets, and its AESA radar is at least as good as the European systems, this "invisibility" is a decisive advantage. The best weapons in the world are useless if they cannot see their targets.
The F-35 will be able to see the Rafale, Gripen, and Eurofighter long before it can be seen itself. The first rule of air combat may be "speed is life", but the second rule is "lose the sight, lose the fight". In the 21st century, sight includes radar. It is very likely that the only warning the F-35 may give of its presence will be when its radar has locked on to one of the European fighters. By that point, the F-35 is already close to launching its AMRAAMs.
This is probably the major reason for the United States Air Force's future dominance of the air. Even its second-best fighter will probably be able to best the front-line designs of other western nations in a "paper" fight based on specifications and capabilities. When the level of training American pilots get is added to the mix, the F-35's advantage becomes staggering. One other factor to consider is that the United States Air Force plans to have 1,763 F-35s on inventory (the Marine Corps and Navy variants would add another 780 F-35s to the mix). If the Rafale is built to a planned force level of 292, and the Saudi order for the Eurofighter goes through, the combined Gripen, Rafale, and Eurofighter production runs will total 1,262, meaning there will be two F-35s for every one of the advanced European fighters. – Harold C. Hutchison (haroldc.hutchison@gmail.com)
I certainly don't class the Brits as Sitzpinklers like so many other Euros...
ROTFLMAO! I had to copy your text here to send to some people who I think would enjoy that comment from a German!
Ah...if only that BS History COULD be rewritten...:)
Makes me wonder what WOULD be impressive to "Europeans"?
Deshalb haben sie den Krieg verloren.
Good points...but I like to think we won because our people believed they were morally justified, and our people at all levels were not afraid of being shot because they disagreed with Roosevelt and our military personnel at all levels were empowered to make decisions. Basically, our way of life was the key to victory.
And, I could not disagree with you more stongly regarding equipment. The Germans did NOT have better rifles. The USA held that distinction (As your namesake so succincly put it) When he stated that the M-1 Garand is the weapon that won the war.
And, I would also disagree they had better planes. They had no match for the Liberator. They had no match for the Fortress. They definitely had no match for the Superfortress. Our fighters were just as good or better, although I concede the FW-190 D-9 was an extraordinary plane, as was the ME-262. Doesn't do you any good if you can't get em in the hands of your pilots and maintain them though, does it?
I will agree completely with on tanks. Germans had the best tanks in the world, hands down.
And with all of that, their leadership failed them. Without appropriate leadership, the most magnificent soldiers are going to lose.
Impressive to Europeans:
Erich Hartmann with 353 kills.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erich_Hartmann
or Gerhard Barkhorn with 302 kills
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerhard_Barkhorn
or Heinz Bär with 220 kills
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinz_B%C3%A4r
not to speak about Hans-Ulrich Rudel who flew some 2,530 combat missions (a world record), during which he destroyed almost 2,000 ground targets (among them 519 tanks, 70 assault craft/landing boats, 150 self-propelled guns, 4 armoured trains and 800 other vehicles; as well as 9 planes (2 IL-2's and 7 fighters)). He also sank a battleship, two cruisers and a destroyer. He was shot down or force-landed 32 times (several times behind enemy lines), always somehow managing to escape capture despite Stalin himself putting a 100,000 rouble bounty on his head. He was also wounded five times and rescued six stranded aircrew from enemy territory.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Rudel
That is indeed impressive although Rudel was -from the political view- a complete a**hole.
Besides of that - I never said that I want to rewrite history. I even denied it in this thread. Just read:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1668443/posts?page=47#47
P.S. I also said that Americans never had the chance to equal scores since they usually were not that long in direct combat service compared to the Germans or the Japanese.
Of course, the Germans never fielded it. They could not.
I have to disagree with you on that statement. That may be true at some point in the future, but it is not true today, and will not be true for another generation.
When "Ray" guns become as affordable, maintainable and widespread as antiaircraft guns and missles, in third world countries, perhaps. But you cannot make that statement today, and it won't be true for years to come, in my opinion.
But they had no idea how to design an assembly process that was quick.
Deshalb haben sie den Krieg verloren.
Yep! Besides of that the political and millitary leadership in Germany was simply crazy. Ruthless brain amputated morons.
It's all part of the HUGE rethink needed re: asymmetrical warfare.
Americans were only in WW2 for about 3.5 years. The Germans had 6 years of WW2, plus all of the fighting from the Spanish Civil War to WW2 to build up kills. Plus the Germans fought outdated planes with the world's best fighters in those early war years, while the U.S. started the war with obsolete fighters going against the best planes & pilots. And finally, American pilots had more stringent requirements to meet before being credited with a kill than the Germans.
All of that being said, the Germans had some of the greatest fighter pilots in history. I've read a few of their autobiographies [such as Erich Hartmann].
Entweder oder, keinen Duesenflieger mehr.
M1200 and 200' of graphite line.
Immer schneller dreht sich der Propeller...
When the German pilots went up against pilots who had recieved some real training and were flying non-obsolete hardware, it wasn't quite the same for them as shooting down poorly trained peasant boys flying in obsolete or semi-obsolete, poorly maintained aircraft..as they discovered when they began going hammer and tong against the British.
Like the German submariners who had all those "Happy Times" until the unprepared people who were dying by the bucketful became prepared. It is always easier to rack up scores against an opponent who is unprepared, untalented or poorly trained.
That is always a bad sign....
I don't doubt it will be true someday, but I will bet money it will not be 6-10 years before manned aircraft are obsolete.
I believe the statement you make is the equivalent of saying that Battleships were obsolete in WWI. They were not. Although, with air power starting to become a factor, someone could see that was going to happen. Someone like Billy Mitchell.
All technology eventually becomes obsolete, and there is nowhere that is truer than in warfare. Nobody disagrees about that. Everyone disagrees about when to drop one technology for another.
It is like that old joke about the guy who asks a woman if she would have sex with him for money...when she asks how much, he offers $20 and she, outraged says "What kind of woman do you think I am?" and he replies "We have already established that...we were just negotiating prices...:)"
Of curiosity, were these lifetime totals, or by conflict? IIRC, several German pilots began their careers in the Spanish Civil war, so aprox. 9 years of combat?
Not to mention the fruits of John Moses Browning, in all their manifold goodness.
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