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To: nonsporting
"-- In fact the following provision of the 14th Amendment reaches back and makes the 1st Amendment apply to the states --"

Why stop at the 1st amendment? The right of the people to keep and bear arms should also be "incorporated."

The 2nd doesn't really need 'incorporation' by the USSC.
None of the amendments did. -- They all apply as being an integral part of our supreme Law of the Land. -- According to:
Article VI, Clause 2
This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.

How ironic. The 1st amendment was intended to protect State establishments from Federal infringement. Many States retained their religious establishments after the adoption of the Bill of Rights well into the 19th century. The above incorporation interpretation must be in error in some way.

State sponsored religions were sort of 'grandfathered in' for the original States. -- But look at the trouble Utah had trying to enter the Union while 'respecting' the Mormon religion.
Took Utah 40 years to gain statehood.

9 posted on 07/11/2006 4:43:02 PM PDT by tpaine
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To: tpaine
State sponsored religions were sort of 'grandfathered in' for the original States. -- But look at the trouble Utah had trying to enter the Union while 'respecting' the Mormon religion. Took Utah 40 years to gain statehood.

Fascinating perspective, however, this "grandfathering" provision is nowhere to be found in the Constitution or B.O.R. Instead the 1st Amendment clearly protects the people or states from a federal establishment of "religion," which is properly understood to mean a christian denomination. The founders were christians overwhelmingly, but not all the same denomination. Thus general christian observances shared by all denoms was "tolerated"--Bible reading/training, prayer, posting of 10 commandments, ... (I'm sure some will point out exceptions, but these are exceptions.) These didn't become "unconstitutional" until the 1950's and following. Curious.

I admit that I do not know much about the history of Utah statehood.

22 posted on 07/11/2006 5:50:08 PM PDT by nonsporting
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To: tpaine

"The 2nd doesn't really need 'incorporation' by the USSC.
None of the amendments did. -- They all apply as being an integral part of our supreme Law of the Land. -- According to:
Article VI, Clause 2"

Very good, tpaine. I have taught you something.

The supremacy clause makes "incorporation" doctrine superfluous at best. The judges in every state are bound by the Bill of Rights.


37 posted on 07/11/2006 6:24:11 PM PDT by H.Akston (No tpaine left behind.)
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To: tpaine
State sponsored religions were sort of 'grandfathered in' for the original States. -- But look at the trouble Utah had trying to enter the Union while 'respecting' the Mormon religion. Took Utah 40 years to gain statehood.

Utah didn't really have any serious prospects of entering the Union until after the Fourteenth Amendment had been ratified (if they had, they'd have gotten in -- the Republicans, anticipating the need to make a few Constitutional amendments after the war, were predisposed to admit as many new free states as possible), so that example is beside the point.

80 posted on 07/13/2006 6:32:12 AM PDT by steve-b ("Creation Science" is to the religous right what "Global Warming" is to the socialist left.)
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