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Endangered flowers trigger fight over California housing project (another plant of a "plant"?)
AP on Bakersfield Californian ^ | 7/8/06 | Terence Chea - ap

Posted on 07/08/2006 1:02:12 PM PDT by NormsRevenge

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To: Hawk1976
If you want to 'preserve the environment' then buy some.

L

21 posted on 07/08/2006 6:29:00 PM PDT by Lurker (2 months and still no Bill from Pence. What is he milking squids for the ink?)
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To: Lurker

Okay, let's say I rush out and buy 100 hundred acres of woodland to be conserved. What happens when on an adjoining 20 acres a brewery opens up and in this pure capitilistic scenario they decide it's cheaper to toss the chemical byproducts out the back door rather than pay for proper cleanup and removal.

This chemical byproduct moves into my area killing the nature I was trying to conserve.

No, Environmental Protection and conservation has a proper role for government. Left to their own devices buisnessmen would too often take the lowest cost solution even if it harmed their neighbors and workers. History bears my point out.


22 posted on 07/08/2006 6:54:48 PM PDT by Hawk1976 (Borders. Language. Culture. AAA-0. Free Travis Mcgee.)
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To: Dr. Bogus Pachysandra
This is ridiculous! Plants and animals face extinction all the time. If their populations are reduced to tiny amounts, living in a tiny area, they are probably about due for extinction. 4 posted on 07/08/2006 1:21:18 PM PDT by Dr. Bogus Pachysandra ("Don't touch that thing")

What is the matter, don't these liberals understand Darwin? Species evolve or die. Make these liberals stop fighting Darwinism!

23 posted on 07/08/2006 7:19:17 PM PDT by american_ranger
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To: NormsRevenge

We have a problem in San Diego related to a public school. The site didn't exist until it was created by man for a future public school. A canyon was filled in. Now that the school is needed, enviromentalists suddenly discovered "fairy shrimp" in vernal pools on the site. Fish & Wildlife has declared these shrimp endangered although they refuse to conduct the DNA testing required to prove these are the endangered variety and not a common one. Talk host Roger Hedgecock suspects these "fairy shrimp" were planted by eco-terrorists.


24 posted on 07/08/2006 7:32:53 PM PDT by newzjunkey (Support Arnold-McClintock or embrace higher taxes, gay weddings with Angelides.)
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To: NormsRevenge
There are quite a lot of places to start here.
First, 98% of all the plants and animals that have ever lived are extinct. So in reality saving a plant or animal that is going extinct is actually going against nature.
If one really wants to return to a time in the past why is it never one where the land was underwater or ice?
Second, if all of the roads, buildings, bridges any infrastructure were jammed into a area of America it would cover between 3-5% of the land.
Third, IMHO what is going on all over America is Agenda 21.
The putting aside of, at least, 50% of the land so as to return it to nature. You see man is not a part of nature, people are looked at, by environmentalist's, as a type of virus to nature. Does one really think that nature can tell the difference between a rock and a plastic bottle. Does one really believe that nature can be harmed? It can always be altered, cultivated, changed organically,frozen, fried, flooded etc. but harmed. I think not.
Forth, from the story it is apparent that environmentalists will not stop at breaking the law in order to impose their 'religion' on others.
Fifth, this is a private property fight. Why should some properties, i.e. environmentally, 'sensitive' land have more protections then yours under the law. As much bad press as eminent domain has been getting lately doesn't alter the fact that it (eminent domain) is a constitutional right of the people, but it seems that land designated for preservation or habitat cannot be eminently domains. Equal protection under the law, I don't think so.
Sixth, homeowners associations have rules and regulations for living in a particular community and one can always decide not to live there because of them. But because of government required comprehensive plans by counties and cities have been initiated, your local planning and zoning board have become the nation wide homeowners association. Only problem with that is that I already have a set of laws for mine, and that is the Bill of Rights and the Constitution. Constitutional rights are being trampled upon because of environmentalism and also by people demanding more and more government to fix their day to day problems.
Seventh, and last for this post, if ones wants to stop sprawl, ramped growth and all of that you need to look no further than your local government. The bigger it gets the more money it needs. It produces nothing. It's only source of funds is what you make. And, if you do not make enough our you go, eminent domain, and bring in a better serf to feed the feudalistic system we have embraced. The fault of uncontrolled growth is not with just developers but with the bureaucracy that has to control in order to survive and thus becomes, no longer, the protector of ones unalienable rights, as deemed by our Constitution, but a destructive force to the American way of life and slowly puts out the lights in the city on the hill.
25 posted on 07/08/2006 7:41:23 PM PDT by Jonathan E (Sustainable Development/Smart Growth is "Environmental Sharia")
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To: Jonathan E

Man is no more a virus than beaver, ants, termites, bees, moles, or prarie dogs are. In fact most animals make alterations to their environments in some form.

Environmentalists are a bunch of kooks. What doesn't follow is that we should there fore asphaplt over every square inch of land we can.

There are ways of spreading out and building to accomadate nature, and we should consider them.

Florida burns because their are too many residents now. All those people pulling water from the aquifier are making things go dry. People upthread are telling me that's just tough cookies, I don't see it that way.


26 posted on 07/08/2006 8:45:10 PM PDT by Hawk1976 (Borders. Language. Culture. AAA-0. Free Travis Mcgee.)
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To: muawiyah

Before house hunting last time, I studied the lahar maps. We should be safe from those, but my husband likes to tell me if the mountain blows in the right direction, we could still have debris land on us.


27 posted on 07/09/2006 9:15:57 AM PDT by conservative cat
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To: Hawk1976
but my main concern here is the environment

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Hm,,,,like a religion?
28 posted on 07/09/2006 9:34:41 AM PDT by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid.)
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To: conservative cat

There will be lots and lots of poison gas ~ did you put that in your equation?


29 posted on 07/09/2006 1:30:43 PM PDT by muawiyah (-)
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To: wintertime
Okay, lets look at it from a Christian point of view for a second. The Earth is given to humans but we are also commanded to be good stewards. A good steward will not wantonly violate the environment.

Corporations exist for profit. Which is how it should be, unfortunately they tend to look strictly at the short term and profit margin. That makes it look like a good idea to dump the waste byproduct from your brewery into the nearest creek, it harms the environment and will harm others downstream but hey it increased the corporations profit. That means I need a warren of some sort to make the corporation dispose of the waste byproduct in the most human and environment friendly way. Even if it means there product may cost a bit more.

All those corporations moved to China which may as well be renamed the land of slave labor and no environmental protection law. Now their rivers are hopelessly polluted, just like New England's rivers just two decades ago, and there is a smog cloud emanating from China that can reach the Oregon coast.

We do not know neither the day nor hour of Christ's return. We must remain good and faithful stewards. Evidence from communist and former communist countries should tell you that environmental conservation and stewardship is not a leftist ideal.
30 posted on 07/09/2006 9:47:22 PM PDT by Hawk1976 (Borders. Language. Culture. AAA-0. Free Travis Mcgee.)
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To: Hawk1976
Okay, let's say I rush out and buy 100 hundred acres of woodland to be conserved. What happens when on an adjoining 20 acres a brewery opens up and in this pure capitilistic scenario they decide it's cheaper to toss the chemical byproducts out the back door rather than pay for proper cleanup and removal.

Then you sue the b@stards for fouling your property. It's the American way...

31 posted on 07/09/2006 10:23:23 PM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly.)
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To: Hawk1976

We must remain good and faithful stewards. Evidence from communist and former communist countries should tell you that environmental conservation and stewardship is not a leftist ideal.

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

I agree. If land has importance toward preserving the earth, then the community should justly pay the owner for its collective use.

I don't believe that Christ would approve of falsely planting an endangered plant on a farmer's land. He would consider this theft and destruction of that man's financial worth. Those falsely planting the endangered species are not worshiping Christ. They are worshiping their own golden calf of environmentalism.


32 posted on 07/10/2006 5:20:51 AM PDT by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid.)
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