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Defense Dept. Imposes Loyalty Test on American Jews
Insight Magazine ^ | 6/28/2006

Posted on 06/28/2006 6:45:43 AM PDT by Ancesthntr

The Pentagon has banned security clearance to Americans with relatives in Israel. Government sources and attorneys said the Pentagon has sought and succeeded in removing security clearance from dozens of Americans, mostly Jews, who either lived, worked or have relatives in Israel. Official documents report that American Jews were asked by Pentagon examiners whether they would join a U.S. attack on Israel if the Jewish state was threatened.

[Note - this is all that is available to non-subscribers to Insight.]


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Government; Israel
KEYWORDS: israel; jews; loyalty; pentagon
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To: ishabibble
They should have been executed the day after they were convicted. They certainly would have been in Israel.

Regrettably not - Israel has actually executed only one person in its history, Adolf Eichmann, who planned large parts of the genocide of European Jewry. Run of the mill traitors, and even terrorists who've killed as many as dozens of people, get jail time. That fact is why 2 Israelis have been kidnapped (with one reported to have since been murdered) - because Israel is very soft in this regard.

81 posted on 06/28/2006 10:45:46 AM PDT by Ancesthntr
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To: SJackson
Maybe so, but it's not as bad as your typing!

I posted my reply re this entire thread to Anceshntr. You can read it, but I doubt it will satisfy you.

The disloyal comment is just plain untrue. Go back and check, I never said that. The Irish comments don't merit any answer ,either. When my people came to this country, this became our country.

Winston Churchill was the greatest Englishman in the history of that country. His mother was an American. I believe that a person is what they believe and how they conduct themselves throughout their lives. It has little to do with the way back whens...
82 posted on 06/28/2006 11:04:12 AM PDT by ishabibble
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To: Ancesthntr

As far as I know, it's not just Israel. I think it applies to everyone with relatives in a foreign country.

I'm Jewish and VERY pro-Israel, but as long as this applies to all employees equally, I think it's a sound and just policy.


83 posted on 06/28/2006 11:05:08 AM PDT by Alexander Rubin (Octavius - You make my heart glad building thus, as if Rome is to be eternal.)
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To: ArrogantBustard

Very true. Let's not lose historical context, or forget what a foreign infiltrator could do. Being sympathetic to a foreign state is one thing, but having your primary allegiance somewhere else is something else altogether. And a single person, in the right position, loyal to a foreign state could, both intentionally and inadvertently, do incredible damage.


84 posted on 06/28/2006 11:07:20 AM PDT by Alexander Rubin (Octavius - You make my heart glad building thus, as if Rome is to be eternal.)
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To: RFEngineer

I'm a Canadian Jew and I would agree that America (or maybe Israel) is the best place in the world to be Jewish. So long as this process applies to everyone, and from what I have heard it does, then its fair. No use whining about it.

States do have vested interest in minimizing the amount of espionage. Let's not lose sight of civic duties and responsibilities here. Sympathy for a foreign state is one thing, acceptable and in many cases commendable, but primary allegiance to it is another entirely, and completely unacceptable.


85 posted on 06/28/2006 11:11:39 AM PDT by Alexander Rubin (Octavius - You make my heart glad building thus, as if Rome is to be eternal.)
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To: ishabibble

Medea Benjamin is Jewish? Ugh...That's awful. I wonder if we can excommunicate her. Or...bar her from membership or something.

And, for the record, I am a classic liberal Jew, with many personal conservative tendencies.


86 posted on 06/28/2006 11:15:06 AM PDT by Alexander Rubin (Octavius - You make my heart glad building thus, as if Rome is to be eternal.)
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To: ishabibble; SJackson

I think you were being a little harsh, SJackson. He was making a generalization, which has some basis in truth.

Sloppy, but nothing the rest of us don't do, as well.

Just my two cents. ;)


87 posted on 06/28/2006 11:17:55 AM PDT by Alexander Rubin (Octavius - You make my heart glad building thus, as if Rome is to be eternal.)
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To: Alexander Rubin
I'm Jewish and VERY pro-Israel, but as long as this applies to all employees equally, I think it's a sound and just policy.

That's my POV exactly.

88 posted on 06/28/2006 11:19:19 AM PDT by Ancesthntr
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To: Ancesthntr

Nice post.


89 posted on 06/28/2006 11:20:00 AM PDT by Alexander Rubin (Octavius - You make my heart glad building thus, as if Rome is to be eternal.)
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To: ishabibble
The disloyal comment is just plain untrue. Go back and check, I never said that. The Irish comments don't merit any answer ,either. When my people came to this country, this became our country.

You're right. The citizenship situation is identical to Israel, a tad more liberal, but when Irish come to America they become Americans, just like Jews.

90 posted on 06/28/2006 11:30:19 AM PDT by SJackson (The Pilgrims—Doing the jobs Native Americans wouldn’t do!)
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To: em2vn

Heck, I had a security clearance many years ago, and I had to stop dating someone from New Zealand. I should say, that if I wanted to go out with him I had to go through a bunch of loopholes and paperwork. I had just met the guy, and wasn't that interested. It wasn't worth the hassle.


91 posted on 06/28/2006 11:36:52 AM PDT by luckystarmom
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To: Sabramerican; Alouette
Haven't you heard? Jews are not a religion and every "ethnic" Jew automatically gets Israeli citizenship.

Must be a new definition of "Jew" I hadn't heard before.

As far as citizenship is concerned even if an American Jew makes aliya (moves to Israel) they do not automatically become citizens. Many younger olim take tempoary resident status for three years to avoid being drafted during what is already a sometimes difficult transitional period for an oleh hadash (new immigrant). If they took citizenship immediately they'd be subject to IDF service 90 days after they arrived just like any other Israeli. Some choose to return to the States without ever taking citizenship.

My dual nationality derived from 1) being the child of an Israeli born overseas and 2) having then lived in Israel as a child. I'd assume my parents did whatever was necessary for me to be considered a citizen. We did move back to the States but my citizenship remained.

FWIW, I held a security clearance in the U.S. for some time. I had to state that I had citizenship in another country on the paperwork I filled out when I as subject to a "National Security Background Investigation". The issue of my having lived in Israel as a child and having family there most certainly was questioned. I answered all questions honestly and my clearance was granted. The clearance was subsequently revoked in 2001 due to changes the Bush admininstration put in place. The Clinton administration permitted clearances to people that the Bush administration later denied. I cannot honestly say if this was a general tightening up of security or if Israelis were particularly targeted, but with lack of factual information I'd assume that it was a general change in policy.

There is a general distrust of Israelis in the American security establishment in my experience. The Pollard affair definitely had something to do with that.

Are Jews descriminiated against in American security positions? In some situations that has been well documented. Sephardic Jews (Jews who fled Arab countries) have been denied Arabic translator positions for fear of offending Arab-American translators. Sephardim are native Arabic speakers who are generally very loyal Americans who have no love for the Arabs who drove them out of their homelands. Some Arab-American translators proved to be, well... not so loyal. In this one instance I feel DOD and the intelligence community did themselves a very real disservice in barring Jews from sensitive positions in a way that did not serve American security interests.

Is there a more general discrimination against American Jews? I didn't seen it when I lived in the States and worked for the government. Prior to the Bush administration there certainly was no discrimination against Israeli-born Americans either in some positions requiring clearance. It depended on the level of clearance required. Again, I know this from first hand experience. Having said all of that, I will NOT accuse the Bush administration of having any particular agenda against American Jews or Americans who immigrated from Israel until I see some evidence of it. One paragraph from a magazine is insufficient to make such an accusation. If the Bush administration does have such an agenda they are only hurting themselves.

92 posted on 06/28/2006 12:15:10 PM PDT by anotherview ("Ignorance is the choice not to know" -Klaus Schulze)
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To: ishabibble
They should have been executed the day after they were convicted. They certainly would have been in Israel.

Incorrect. Israel has the death penalty for only one crime: genocide. The only person executed in all of Israel's history was Adolph Eichmann. The maximum penalty for espionage or even treason is life in prison in Israel.

93 posted on 06/28/2006 12:24:41 PM PDT by anotherview ("Ignorance is the choice not to know" -Klaus Schulze)
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To: Ancesthntr

How Israel Trip Came Back to Haunt an Aide


New York Sun
By JOSH GERSTEIN
June 6, 2006


A veteran State Department employee contends that a month-long trip he took to Israel more than two decades ago has contributed to the suspension of his security clearance, stalling and perhaps ending his career in the foreign service.

After serving in 10 overseas posts, Daniel Hirsch has spent the last three and half years behind a desk at Foggy Bottom or elsewhere in Washington as agents from the Bureau of Diplomatic Security have scoured his past to determine whether he is trustworthy and loyal enough to be allowed access to government secrets.

To read this article in its entirety, you must be a subscriber to NYSun.com
94 posted on 06/28/2006 1:51:14 PM PDT by familyop ("The Jews have done more to civilize men than any other nation..." --President John Adams)
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To: Ancesthntr

Pentagon denying Israelis security clearances


Ynetnews
17MAY06


New York Sun reports State Department citing AIPAC leak case as basis for denying employees with dual Israeli-American citizenship security clearances. In one case, government lawyers argued Israel was 'actively spying on United States' to justify withdrawing clearance from worker

The Pentagon is citing a leak affair involving Defense Department analyst Lawrence Franklin and two pro-Israel lobbyists Steven Rosen and Keith Weissman, as a basis for stripping security clearances from government contractor employees who have dual Israeli-American citizenship or family in Israel, The New York Sun reported Wednesday.

The two former AIPAC officials and the Pentagon analyst were indicted in August 2005 on charges they conspired to pass classified information to persons not entitled to receive it, including Israeli officials and members of the press.

According to the Sun, Defense Department attorneys have used the AIPAC leak indictments in at least three cases, to justify withdrawing or denying security clearances.

The paper quoted Virginian Lawyer Sheldon Cohen who has been tracking these cases, as saying: "The only reason to possibly use it (the dual citizenship issue) is to implicate anybody with a connection to Israel, to imply they cannot be trusted. There is no other conceivable reason to bring it up."

A study conducted by Cohen on the subject of Israel-related security clearance cases, found that "an unusually large number" of cases involving foreign influence concerns seem to relate to Israel.

'Israel actively spying on US'

The Sun reported that in one case, an Israeli-born mechanical engineer who has worked as a major defense contractor and has been living in the United States for over 25 years, faced an attempt by government lawyers to revoke his security clearance because of his dual citizenship, his possession of an Israeli passport and the fact that he has relatives in Israel.

"There was some basis for McCarthyism. Here there's nothing, just this dual loyalty business," David Schoen, the employee's attorney, told the Sun. "It really strikes me as un-American."

"His wife is American. His kids are American," the lawyer said. "He has never had a problem at Lockheed (where he worked)," Schoen added.

According to the attorney, at a hearing on the case a few weeks ago, a government attorney tried to submit the leak indictment as an exhibit, arguing that it showed Israel was actively spying on America.

Rabbi Shmuel Herzfeld, a leader of the Jewish community in Washington, told the Sun he was disturbed by the growing number of similar incidents. "People around the country are turning to us and telling us of ongoing cases where people are stripped of their livelihoods just because they're Jewish," he said.
95 posted on 06/28/2006 1:55:54 PM PDT by familyop ("The Jews have done more to civilize men than any other nation..." --President John Adams)
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To: Ancesthntr

US: Israel trip may cost state employee his job


Yitzhak Benhorin
06-06-06
Ynetnews


State Department employee suspected of dual loyalties, loses security clearance due to visit to Israel 23 years ago

WASHINGTON – Daniel Hirsch, a long-time employee of the American State Department had his security clearance revoked 3-and-a-half years ago, and may also stand to lose his job altogether, all because of a visit he held in Israel 23 years ago. A photo on Hirsch's office wall which portrays him in IDF uniform led to an investigation against him that resulted in the suspension of his clearance.

In an interview to Ynet, Hirsch explained that before September 11 and the establishment of the Homeland Security Office, a picture of him as a volunteer in Israel could not have stirred such a row at the State Department. Now it's enough to get your security clearance cancelled, he said.

Hirsch is one of many American Jews currently facing suspicions of dual loyalties on the part of the US defense establishment due to their ties, or alleged ties, with Israel. Similar cases in the Pentagon and the CIA were reported in the last few months.

'US changed the rules'

The picture in Hirsch's office was taken 23 years ago when the 23-year-old arrived in Israel with other Jewish American volunteers to work in IDF bases. We worked in army bases doing civilian duties, Hirsch recounted. "For two weeks I helped a tank mechanic. I wasn't even a mechanic myself, I was merely sent to fetch the tools," he described.

Before leaving for Israel, Hirsch reported his employers at the time, the CIA, of the trip and was granted permission to go. He visited the country once again in 1992.

According to Hirsch, when he started working for the State Department he was told he should keep away from his Israeli relatives, and claims to have done just that. Years ago I have accepted the fact that in order to work in this business I would have to sever ties with my family in Israel, he stated. I have been playing their game, but now they changed the rules, Hirsch added.
96 posted on 06/28/2006 1:59:46 PM PDT by familyop ("The Jews have done more to civilize men than any other nation..." --President John Adams)
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To: familyop

Those stories are exactly the types of incidents that I have a very big problem with - there's no basis whatsoever for dropping security clearances on these people, just the possibility of dual loyalty. Oh, and only with Jews. Not with Arab/Moslem Americans, not with French Americans, not with anyone else but Jews. Barring some very good explanation that I haven't seen yet, I can only surmise that there is a biased policy, and that disgusts me.


97 posted on 06/28/2006 2:15:07 PM PDT by Ancesthntr
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To: ishabibble; anotherview; Ancesthntr; SJackson
Ishabibble wrote:
Jason Pollard, American Jew/Israeli spy is a pretty good example of the kind of person who would sell out this country for his own agenda.

anotherview wrote:
There is a general distrust of Israelis in the American security establishment in my experience. The Pollard affair definitely had something to do with that.

ArrogantBustard wrote:
"But it's not unprecedented, and the rantings of the perpetually offended to the contrary notwithstanding, it's not evidence of so-called 'antisemitism'."

So...? FBI agent-turned-Russian-spy Robert Hanssen was a member of the Roman secret society, Opus Dei.

I've been accused of "anti-Catholic bias" and called a "bigot" many times by those who actually express themselves as being "perpetually offended" around here for posting facts like that.
98 posted on 06/28/2006 2:53:14 PM PDT by familyop ("Either you're with us, or you're with the terrorists." --President Bush)
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To: familyop

Going by your comments, I am going to guess that you pretty much skimmed through the preceding 97 posts. It was a good and informative debate, and I learned so much from it.
You could too.


99 posted on 06/28/2006 2:59:59 PM PDT by ishabibble
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To: Ancesthntr

Yes, and welcome to the United States of Rome. Ancestors of people who hate Judaism came over in enormous numbers during the late 1800s and early 1900s. Many of them have become lawyers and want to continue to try to replace Judaism. Their anti-American, western European, socialist, relatives continue to float and fly over the Atlantic in hordes to get here.


100 posted on 06/28/2006 3:01:35 PM PDT by familyop ("The Romans and their Empire were but a bauble in comparison to the Jews." --President John Adams)
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