Defense Dept. Imposes Loyalty Test on American Jews

Insight Magazine ^ | 6/28/2006

[Ancesthntr]

The Pentagon has banned security clearance to Americans with relatives in Israel. Government sources and attorneys said the Pentagon has sought and succeeded in removing security clearance from dozens of Americans, mostly Jews, who either lived, worked or have relatives in Israel. Official documents report that American Jews were asked by Pentagon examiners whether they would join a U.S. attack on Israel if the Jewish state was threatened.

[Note - this is all that is available to non-subscribers to Insight.]

[ishabibble]

I don't see anything in my post that I didn't try to balance as a contrast between American Jews and Israeli Jews. Also, what makes you think that I haven't thought this subject over carefully? Are you one of those "I am every and all Jewishness"? Because if you are, don't bother. I'm Irish and get kicked around regularly for whatever O'Reilly or Hannity says, also I'm a Roman Catholic, so that makes for a full dance card.

I mentioned Abby Hoffman, Medea Benjamin, and Alan Dershowitz. Is there something about my opinions on these people that you disagree with? Not one of them is Golda Meir.

I don't care what Pollard's name is, as long as it's still a prison number. Just like Aldrich Ames, non-Jewish American traitor.

I am quite surprised that you would throw out the "b" word.
More likely, you just read the first paragraph and snapped to a judgment. That makes you really worth talking to...

[Columbusborn]

I wonder of Muslims are required to jump through similar hoops. It wouldn't surprise me if that weren't the case.

[SJackson]

I’m sure a great deal of research lies behind your conclusion that most American Jews are raving liberals of the Johnathan Pollard (criminal), Abby Hoffman (criminal). They hate Israel, they hate America, and the disease is so bad, when someone marries a Jew, their character changes for the worse. Like Barry Goldwater I suppose.

That’s the kind of nonsense that perpetuates the stereotype of right wing bigots, sorry if you don’t like to hear it.

[SJackson]

You'll note from the links in post 8 that they're employed as Arabic translators, while Jews are defacto barred over the question of bias.

[SJackson]

You're right. We have a lot of "unthinking bigots!. But don't be so suspicious about everyboydy!

Read what I said, I was addressing the source of the stereotype, not an individual.

[SJackson]

If Ronald Montaperto were Jewish, think there'd be a tad more interest in his case?

[Mike Darancette]

Jews were asked by Pentagon examiners whether they would join a U.S. attack on Israel if the Jewish state was threatened.

That is a weird question Israel has been threatened since 1948. We wouldn't attach we would be coming to Israel's aid. Only a Palestinian would answer no.

[ishabibble]

Just off the top of my head, here are some of the American Jews that I was speaking about in my original post:

Mort Zuckerman - US News and World Report
Ruth Bader Ginsburg - SCOTUS
Pinch Sulzburer - New York Times
Bella Abzug - UN Women's Development Council
Roy Cohn - Homosexual Henchman McCarthy Hearings

I do not say that these are bad people. I believe that they are bad Americans. More, not a single one would last as an Israeli Jew.

Golda Meir
Ariel Sharon
Menacham Begin
Moyshe Dayan
David Ben-Gurion

I do not say that these are bad people. I say that they are loyal Israeli Jews.

Golda Meir was a born American and Jewish. What in the world does she have in common with Ruth Bader Ginsburg or Bella Abzug? Nothing. That is my only point.

[Ancesthntr]

Frankly, I don't know why anyone would associate American Jews with the Israelis. They may have the same religion and ancestry but that's about it.

We American Jews share religion, ancestry and cultural ties with Israel, the same as ethnic Irish, Poles, Germans, etc. share with their ancestral homelands. Yet Eisenhower was given command of a couple million soldiers in the fight against Germany with no questions about his loyalty. The contrast is illuminating - regarding those asking the questions.

Your comments about American Jewish Leftists/Liberals is generally spot-on. However, just because those people are very loud and get media coverage from similar-minded people (both Jewish and non-Jewish) doesn't mean that most American Jews agree with them, or that most American Jews are in any way disloyal. Quite the contrary - we are intensely aware of what our fate would be if we lived elsewhere, if our grandparents and great grandparents hadn't left the old country. For me, I simply wouldn't exist. First, my grandparents would likely never have met each other, but more importantly, even if they had, Herr Schicklegruber and his merry men would have murdered my parents when they were young kids - so I owe my very existence to this country and its open arms. I would defend it to the death, and I resent it when others (not you) question my loyalty based on my religion.

As to the "9/11 Jews," maybe they have received a figurative slap in the face which has woken them up. Maybe they are actually beginning to "get it" and to use that gray matter between their ears. There has been, and hopefully will continue to be, an exodus of Jews from the fringes of the far Left.

Jason Pollard, American Jew/Israeli spy is a pretty good example of the kind of person who would sell out this country for his own agenda. If you look at the American Jews from Abby Hoffman to Medea Benjamin, you will notice that most are America hating Liberal nutcases.

First off, his name is Jonathan - and he's a definite traitor. My single question about his treatment is: Why has he, a spy for a generally friendly country, been imprisoned for life in solitary, while others who aren't Jewish who've done the same for different generally friendly countries than Israel have gotten lesser (far lesser) sentences? IOW, my only question is one of Equal Protection. As far as I'm concerned, all spies should be executed, no matter their family history or religion, or who they spied for against us...but no one asks me to make policy.

Second, Aldrich Aimes and the Walkers are also spies, and I don't think that they are Jews. Treason is ethnically and religiously blind, and so should be our treatment of traitors.

Third, there are plenty of non-Jewish "America hating Liberal nutcases." John Murtha, Howard Dean, Nancy Pelosi and a bunch of others fall into that catagory.

Let's try to keep religion and ethnicity out of discussions of loyalty and treason. You are either loyal or not, period. I started this thread because the article in question raised the issue of disparate treatment of Jews in our armed forces - because of their Jewishness. I simply want to know if it is true or not - and if so, then something is wrong. If it is not true, if the article is wrong or offers less than the whole picture, then I have no problem with what's being done.

[Sabramerican]

Amazing isn't it. All those spies for Israel. There was Pollard. And? Wait? Pollard? Did I mention Pollard? And the other guy. Wait that was Pollard too. Only Jews are suspect.I curse the day Ames and Hanssen, and Howard and the Walkers and......................................................... were Bar Mitzvahed.

[Perdogg]

Yes I passed!

[Ancesthntr]

Golda Meir was a born American and Jewish.

Well, you got the second part right. She was actually born in Kiev, then part of the Russian Empire. She moved to Milwaukee in 1906 with her family, and left for what was then Palestine in 1921.

[Sabramerican]

Pinch Sulzberger is an Episcopalian.

[ZULU]

"Official documents report that American Jews were asked by Pentagon examiners whether they would join a U.S. attack on Israel if the Jewish state was threatened."

DISGUSTING!!!!

Why don't they do the same thing for MUSLIMS???

How about asking THEM if they would support an ISLAMIC enemy who threatened the U.S. in a Jihad. And make them do under a lie detector. THEIR religion preaches always siding with a Muslim agains a non-Muslim in a fight. Its one of their basic religious tenets.

[Convert from ECUSA]

"Why don't they do the same thing for MUSLIMS??? How about asking THEM if they would support an ISLAMIC enemy who threatened the U.S. in a Jihad. And make them do under a lie detector. THEIR religion preaches always siding with a Muslim agains a non-Muslim in a fight. Its one of their basic religious tenets."

Bingo! If they did it for Muslims, CAIR would have it out in the media faster than stink on bleep. And Muslims worldwide would riot, burn, protest, etc. They're afraid of Muslims because Muslims declare jihad when a butterfly farts the wrong way.

[sofaman]

Judaism is a religion, not a race, just as Catholicism is a religion, not a race.

Hence, there are Black Jews, Brown Jews, Oriental Jews, etc. Therefore, Sabra's comment is NOT apples and oranges, and is completely to the point and appropriate.

[ishabibble]

A very thoughtful reply...I haven't actually gotten to the content of the article itself since I stepped in the PC cowpie right off the bat!

You've made several of my points far better than I could have, starting with the traitors. I firmly believe that it is splitting hairs to discuss the circumstances of any of the traitors. They should have been executed the day after they were convicted. They certainly would have been in Israel. Treason betrays an entire nation, and kills untold numbers of innocents by the very act. Pollard, Ames, the Walkers should all be dead for the peril they put the United States of America in, who can really know the damage that they've done?

It is far easier and quicker to list the worst of American Jews than to try and list those that have made such great contributions, who have given us medical and scientific achievements beyond measure, who have enriched our culture and our way of life. Aaron Spelling just passed away. Smart Jewish kid who had nothing and built an empire. Ralph Lauren or the Marx Brothers are stories one would tell children to inspire them. Better yet, try to tell young parents today about life here in America before Dr. Jonas Salk or Dr. Albert Sabin. They probably would think you exaggerate, but I remember those days.

So, when it comes to the Defense Dept. story, which doesn't seem very credible to begin with, I doubt that there is any plans afoot to somehow put a check next to an American Jewish name. However, there are very credible reports that President Crazy Mo in Iran is planning a colour coded system for all the various infidels, and I believe that one. That nutcase is building a hotel for Allah's arrival as we speak!
Yesterday, I read a story on the FR News page that said the State Dept. has just authorized a massive visa program for Saudis. That may or may not be true, but it is a sinking feeling to realize that the brain trust at Foggy Bottom just might do such a thing. There was another article over the weekend re the Saudis offering scholarships to American flight schools for it's fine young men. O joy.

I admire and respect the Israelis tremendously, but not for the reasons that the "rapture" people do. I just remember watching the World at War series on TV in the 60's. My father would fill in the geo-politiical parts and some personal anecdotes about his time there as a young Merchant Marine.
Only six weeks before he died, the Six Day War began. My dad was the only person in the world who knew for a certainty that the Israelis would win. He had unshakable faith in their courage and their abilities. Unfortunately, they've had to fight every day since, and it's only getting worse. As I look at my words, I realize how petty it is to quibble about some rumour turned 3rd rate news when the whole of Gaza is in flames.

I will leave this discussion now, and please know that jumping to the defense of the Israelis is the right thing for me, and yes, I feel nothing but contempt for the America Jews who do not stand up for America or Israel. and who seek to impose a sort of selective elitism on a "chosen few" (pun) but won't fight for it.

p.s. I do apologize for lumping Pinch Sulzburger in with the rest of the American Hit Parade, that surely borders on the criminal!!

[SJackson]

Just off the top of my head, here are some of the American Jews that I was speaking about in my original post:...I do not say that these are bad people. I believe that they are bad Americans. More, not a single one would last as an Israeli Jew...I do not say that these are bad people. I say that they are loyal Israeli Jews....Golda Meir was a born American and Jewish. What in the world does she have in common with Ruth Bader Ginsburg or Bella Abzug? Nothing. That is my only point.

Precisely, you paint all American Jews as disloyal based on your "examples", which include one Christian with a Jewish father, Pinch Sulzburg.

You alluedee to Irish being bashed because of O'Reilly and Hannity. Can you point to any examples on FR of Irish being denigrated because of either of them?

Are Irish Americans disloyal because a single Irish grandparent entitles them, and successive generations if you register the grandparent, to claim Irish citizenship? Are they worse than Jews since they can claim Irish citizenship from the US without relocating to Ireland.

The whold conversation is absurd.

[SJackson]

Pinch Sulzberger is an Episcopalian.

Jewish dad. That counts for Pinch, but not for Barry Goldwater.

[SJackson]

Judaism is a religion, not a race, just as Catholicism is a religion, not a race.

Next to the elimination of European Jewish culture, the concept of Jews as a race, a taint to be inherited, was Hitler's greatest accomplishment.