Jose Luis Santos
Terrae Antiqvae editor
Greetings. Welcome to Free Republic. Quite a magazine you have there.
Are you implying an Egyptian connection some time after the birth of Christ? I can't read Spanish.
Posted on 06/08/2006 12:51:09 PM PDT by blam
Complete news article with photographies of ostrakas in the archaeology magazine online: Terrae Antiqvae (in Spanish)
http://terraeantiqvae.blogia.com/2006/060801-alava.-iruna-veleia-desentierra-jeroglificos-y-grafias-en-latin-de-la-historia-d.php
Warm greetings,
Jose Luis Santos
Terrae Antiqvae editor
http://www.terraeantiqvae.com
Can't sleep? ;)
Boring, boring. It works for sleep every time, lol.
Excellent find. Hope they have close up pics and translations.
Jose Luis Santos
Terrae Antiqvae editor
Greetings. Welcome to Free Republic. Quite a magazine you have there.
Are you implying an Egyptian connection some time after the birth of Christ? I can't read Spanish.
Was this found in ancient Incan ruins?
And warm greetings to you. Welcome.
In your region of the world, how do people view the Ica Stones? As all frauds or mostly genuine?
Iruña Veleia
Las hipótesis que se barajan son amplias. Veleia, una ciudad romana que pudo albergar en su época de máximo esplendor entre 5.000 y 10.000 habitantes, contaba con la relevancia suficiente para albergar residentes ilustres y con conocimientos de todo tipo. De hecho, según apunta el equipo de arqueólogos del yacimiento alavés, en la época flavia, Iruña Veleia vive su momento de mayor auge. Algunas de las domus se rehacen completamente y se edifican con mayor porte. Tanto que los historiadores no descartan nuevos hallazgos en el futuro. No en vano, sólo se han excavado zonas concretas del extenso yacimiento y aún quedan por descubrir, según manifestó ayer Gil se intentará este verano, recuperar las zonas públicas (teatros, termas) que se elevaron en las inmediaciones de Víllodas.
Gran parte de las piezas halladas durante el pasado año en Iruña Veleia representan diversas escenas cotidianas de la vida hogareña de los residentes en la ’Domus’ de Pompeia Valentina, edificio de unos 1.000 metros cuadrados que albergaba a una familia pudiente de la sociedad de esta ciudad romana, que superó los 5.000 habitantes durante el siglo III después de Cristo.
Calvario
Religión. Una de las piezas más representativas del conjunto epigráfico es un Calvario en el que se ve representada la muerte de Jesucristo. Esta pieza, la más antigua de las que contienen a Cristo en la cruz de cuantas se han hallado hasta la fecha en el mundo, muestra a Jesús crucificado junto a los dos ladrones, cuyas cruces y figuras tienen la mitad del tamaño, con dos personajes a los pies de la cruz central. Asimismo, en una vereda que asciende hacia al monte Gólgota se ve a otros dos personajes, uno en pie y otro postrado en el suelo, que podrían representar la Pasión, la travesía hasta la muerte de Cristo.
El dibujo del Calvario hallado en Veleia, se ha convertido en principio en la representación más antigua del mundo de una escena de la vida de Jesús. No existe ninguna otra representación gráfica de la muerte del Hijo de Dios tan temprana. Cualquier alusión a la escena de la crucifixión que se produjo en el monte Calvario, tanto en pinturas, como en cerámicas, es bastante posterior al siglo III d.C.
Enseñanza. Han aparecido además una especie de exámenes para los niños en los que se incluyen abecedarios y enumeraciones.
En Veleia se estudiaba hace más de 1.700 años la historia de Egipto. Todavía más. Entre Trespuentes y Víllodas existía un aula magistral donde los alumnos se iniciaban en la escritura de jeroglíficos. El hallazgo de los arqueólogos alaveses ha dejado perplejos a gran parte de los estudiosos de papiros y un lenguaje de signos tan difícil. Porque nadie se esperaba que en un lugar remoto del Imperio Romano, en Álava, se instalara un hombre culto, de procedencia oriental, que impartía enseñanzas sobre la cultura de los faraones.
Se han recuperado más de una decena de piezas que se relacionaban con el tema egipcio. De éstas, además, había de dos tipos. De un lado, hay piezas epigráficas donde se observan jeroglíficos y otras están escritas en latín pero hacen referencia a Egipto. Su gran importancia reside en el lugar donde se han hallado y, por supuesto, en la cronología de las propias piezas, que datan del s. III d.C. En ellas aparecen nombres egipcios, nombres de dioses y otras piezas con signos de jeroglíficos.
“Una cápsula del tiempo”
Los arqueólogos se refieren a este cuarto como una "cápsula del tiempo". Sobre un suelo de arcilla apisonada, el equipo se topó con una inusual acumulación de objetos en el centro del habitáculo: cerámica de mesa y cocina, sigillata -cerámica de uso doméstico- hispánica y gálica, pondera, lucernas, fusaiolas... Una basura doméstica de incalculable valor.
En estos 270 objetos, datados en el siglo III d.C., los expertos han descubierto un relato de la época. Por un lado, porque se tratan de los apuntes de los pequeños estudiantes romanos -hay declinaciones del latín, el abecedario, un listado de emperadores, temas de La Eneida , relaciones de autores clásicos y divinidades- y también de sus travesuras. Como los garabatos que se hacen al tomar apuntes, los veleienses también habrían amenizado las clases con retratos, caricaturas, representaciones de la vida doméstica y paisajes.
Entre los restos de ánforas, armaduras metálicas de diferentes cajones y de apuntes culturales encontrados en esa habitación-almacén, utilizada como paedagogium para preparar a los niños de la casa, los arqueólogos ven algo singular. Los alumnos recibían conocimientos en latín de la Historia Antigua, escritura, cultura y creencias egipcias -con referencias a Ramsés y Nefertiti-, incluida una muestra de textos jeroglíficos, una escritura que sólo podía dominar alguien de elevada formación. Como un sacerdote.
Una de las piezas más curiosas de cuantas ayer pudieron verse en la presentación que realizaron los responsables del yacimiento era un pequeño trozo de cerámica en el que alguno de los pequeños había aprovechado las clases del instructor de origen egipcio para dibujar el árbol genealógico de su familia. A pesar de ser dibujos extremadamente sencillos, se distinguen los cinco hijos, el padre y una madre que, según parece, se encontraba esperando otro vástago. Al pie de cada uno de los dibujos, además, están tallados los nombres de las personas a las que corresponde la representación.
Saludos cordiales,
José Luis Santos
……………………
Iruña Veleia
The hypotheses that are shuffled are ample. Veleia, a Roman city that could lodge at its time of maximum splendor between 5,000 and 10,000 inhabitants, counted on the relevance sufficient to lodge residents I illustrate and on knowledge of all type. In fact, according to it points the equipment of archaeologists of the Alava deposit, at the time flavia, Iruña Veleia lives his moment on greater height. Some of domus recover completely and they are built with greater bearing. As much that the historians do not discard new findings in the future. Not in vain, concrete zones of the extensive deposit have been only excavated and still they are to discover, according to showed Gil yesterday will try east summer, to recover the public zones (theaters, spas) that rose in the environs of Víllodas.
Great part of the pieces found during the past year in Iruña Veleia represents diverse daily scenes of the life hogareña of the residents in the' Domus' of Pompeia Valentin, building of about 1,000 square meters that lodged a well off family of the society of this Roman city, that a.d. surpassed the 5,000 inhabitants during century III. Calvario Religion. One of the most representative pieces of the epigraphic set is a Calvario in which it is represented the death of Jesus Christ. The this piece, oldest of those than contains to Christ in the cross of whatever have been to date in the world, shows Jesus crucificado next to thieves, whose crossings and figures have half of the size, with two personages on the feet both central de la Cruz. Also, in a path that ascends towards a the Gólgota mount is seen other two personages, one still on and another postrado in the ground, which they could represent the Passion, the passage until the death of Christ.
The drawing of the Calvario found in Veleia, has become in principle the oldest representation of the world of a scene of the life of Jesus. Any other graphical representation of the death of the so early Son of God does not exist. Any reference to the scene of the crucifixión that took place in the Calvario mount, as much in paintings, as in ceramics, is rather subsequent to century III d.C.
Education. They have appeared in addition a species to examinations for the children in whom alphabets and enumerations are included.
In Veleia the history of Egypt studied more ago than 1,700 years. Still more. Between Trespuentes and Víllodas a skillful classroom existed where the students began in the writing of hieroglyphics. The finding of the Alava archaeologists has left to great part of the students of papyruses and a so difficult language of signs perplex. Because nobody hoped that in a remote place of the Roman Empire, in Álava, a cultured man settled, of Eastern origin, that distributed lessons on the culture of the Pharaohs.
They have recovered more than a ten of pieces that were related to the Egyptian subject. Of these, in addition, it had of two types. Of a side, there are epigraphic pieces where hieroglyphics are observed and others are written in Latin but they make reference to Egypt. Its great importance resides in the place where they have been and, by all means, in the chronology of the own pieces, that date from the s. III d.C. In them they appear Egyptian names, names of Gods and other pieces with signs of hieroglyphics.
“A capsule of the time”
The archaeologists talk about to this quarter like a “capsule of the time”. On a tamped clay ground, the equipment ran into in center with an unusual accumulation of objects of the cockpit: table ceramics and cooks, sigillata - ceramic of Hispanic and gálica domestic use, weighs, lucernas, fusaiolas… A domestic sweepings of incalculable value.
In these 270 objects, dated in century III d.C., the experts have discovered a story of the time. On the one hand, because they are the notes of the small Roman students - there are declinations of the Latin, the alphabet, a listing of emperors, subjects of the Eneida, relations of classic authors and divinities and also of their pranks. Like the pothooks that become when taking notes, the veleienses also would have brightened up the classes with pictures, cartoons, representations of the domestic life and landscapes.
Between the rest of amphoras, metallic armors of different drawers and cultural notes found in that room-warehouse, used like paedagogium to prepare the children of the house, the archaeologists see something singular. The students received knowledge in Latin of Old History, Egyptian writing, culture and beliefs - with references to Rameses and Nefertiti-, including a hieroglyphic text sample, a writing that only could dominate somebody of high formation. Like a priest. One of the most peculiar pieces of whatever could yesterday be seen in the presentation that made the people in charge of the deposit was a small piece of ceramics in which some of the small ones had taken advantage of the classes the instructor of Egyptian origin to draw the genealogical tree of its family. In spite of being extremely simple drawings, the five children distinguish themselves, the father and a mother who, according to seems, was waiting for another piston rod. On the foot of each one of the drawings, in addition, the names of the people are carved to whom the representation corresponds.
Warm greetings, Jose Luis Santos
Thanks!
"On the one hand, because they are the notes of the small Roman students ..." A beautiful picture, of young ones working at their schooling. Thank you for the translation.
You raised good kids! I'm looking at my 48th anniversary and I've never gotten anything more than a video from mine! LOL.
Blam: I don't understand your pictures. WEre they from your book onthe pre-Incan civilization, or from the discovery in the Basque country?
Thank you for the fascinating post.
The picture in post #16 is from the Titicaca site.
The pictures in posts #25 - 26 are from website linked in post #21. I don't know where they are from, I can't read it with enough understanding to decide. I originally thought he was saying they were from Titicaca but, I just don't know.
OK, I think the pictures in 25 & 26 are from the Basque discovery. The one with the crosses matches his English translation of the description. I looked at the website briefly, but did not find similar pictures, but my husband hurried me out of the office where I have the high speed connection. Very, very interesting.
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Just updating the GGG info, not sending a general distribution. |
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