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Third Time
Opinion Journal ^ | June 1, 2006 | Peggy Noonan

Posted on 06/01/2006 7:52:30 AM PDT by Mel Gibson

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To: Mel Gibson
The two parties in Washington D.C. don't represent the interests of the American people.

There are a lot of good individual Republicans worthy of your support, however. Of course, I agree with you ultimately. The RNC is a joke.

21 posted on 06/01/2006 8:17:33 AM PDT by Extremely Extreme Extremist (Conservatism is moderate, it is the center, it is the middle of the road)
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To: Jack of all Trades
Third parties are a great idea: Green, Progressive, Communist, Pacifist... Good luck to 'em. I hope they attract a lot of voters

Sure, we like those parties, but they don’t run in too many districts/races. Seems the Libertarian party shows up more often, and they mostly siphon off conservative voters, sometimes ensuring DemonRat socialist victories.

22 posted on 06/01/2006 8:18:11 AM PDT by stillonaroll
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To: Mr. Jeeves
Partly disagree with your disagreement, re - falling for that trick..."Some" will always fall for it, an important qualifier. I don't, do you?

As to the article as a whole, I think she does well to identify a growing swell of support, I just don't think the "seas" will break right for it. The RINOs are clearly strong contenders for any "middle 3rd" party. And most here (FR) would likely love to see their backs.

The problem is twofold, they like it just fine where they are, because they draw independents and moderates to them, yet enjoy the support of conservatives faced with no other choices. And, the most vociferous types about needing a resolution (whether going elsewhere or getting rid of RINOs) appear to be folks found here (FR), and there's simply no indication there are enough of us to create a "Right 3rd" party.

23 posted on 06/01/2006 8:20:06 AM PDT by DK Zimmerman
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To: Jack of all Trades
Re#14 Yep. And the different mindset of the EPA etc. There is a good laundry list on the good things that he has done but we're on the same page.

What irks me most is that many of the complaints about W are pertaining to positions he made clear as a candidate. I don't agree with everything but really haven't been surprised by his "sell outs of the base". He is honest and doing what he believes is right. Oh well, gotta go get some work done. Have a great day....

24 posted on 06/01/2006 8:22:04 AM PDT by eureka! (Heaven forbid the Rats get control of Congress and/or the Presidency any time soon....)
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To: Mel Gibson
"Sometimes it's said they're too polarizing--too red and too blue for a nation in which many see things through purple glasses."

Parties have their own idealistic vision no matter what name they choose for identification.

A third party would not be any more a snapshot of America than either of the two big ones.

In general, I like what I've read about the Constitution Party, but don't have the time to get involved.

For right now, I simply don't tote for ANY democrat, and occasionally decide not to choose a candidate if I have issues with the republican.
25 posted on 06/01/2006 8:22:11 AM PDT by Preachin' (Enoch's testimony was that he pleased God: Why are we still here?)
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To: Mel Gibson

Peggy does her usual great job of capturing the essence of the problem, that the elites in DC don't seem to understand the problems of, or the angst among the voters. There is a disconnect from reality and a widespread belief in their own ability to understand what is good for us peasants regardless of how we might to approach or solve a problem.

The problem is gov't itself, as our founders so rightly understood. They would have a difficult time understanding the beast that "we the people" have allowed to grow in Washington. The growth of the bueracracy and its self-sustaining masters have many roots, but at the bottom, WE are to blame. We have allowed the ideas posited by Marx on political structure, and, by Nietsche on culture to permeate our once great society and rot it from the inside out. In operation, we are beginning more and more to resemble the end of the republican era of Rome with its ravenous mob and unprincipled senatorial families.

Who now stands forth as an exemplar of how to make the changes that need be made to return us to what once made us great? In surveying the current political landscape, it is difficult to find any individual who meets the qualifications. The job is Herculean, and the rewards are miniscule at best. FR is one place where the roots and ideas of a functional third party can be found, but the structure is not there. Additionally, as tough as it is to say, in this age of personality, someone of Washington's stature and personal integrity is needed to coalesce any movement and give it any chance of success.

26 posted on 06/01/2006 8:23:53 AM PDT by LurkLongley (Ad Majoram Dei Gloriam-For the Greater Glory of God)
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To: labard1
Not one of Noonan's better efforts.

Peggy has only recently left the reservation.  She could be counted on to write adoring treacle off all things conservative for decades previous.  It's a remarkable tint adjustment that has nothing to do with quality of effort.  Peggy Noonan bites Bush
27 posted on 06/01/2006 8:24:09 AM PDT by gcruse (
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To: Mel Gibson
The two parties in Washington D.C. don't represent the interests of the American people.

The two parties in Washington will stop at nothing to prevent the rise of a national third party.

You want to see true bi-partisanship?
Start up a national third party and watch the fireworks. Nothing motivates or scares the crap out of a politician like upsetting the status quo.

Make no mistake...I'm all for it....but it ain't a never gonna happen.

28 posted on 06/01/2006 8:27:35 AM PDT by Bloody Sam Roberts (I can't complain...but sometimes I still do.)
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist

I agree with you on the short term formula for keeping us from sliding further into the abyss, I have advocated it here many times, and will continue to do so. That being said, the real question is, how do right thinking individuals find a way to return us to something approaching the constitutional republican democracy that this country was founded as? The simple fact of the matter is that the power of DC is so corrupting and pervasive that almost anyone who goes there becomes enmeshed in it and change, substantive change, becomes nearly impossible. Look at Reagan. We have not had a stronger proponent of constitutional government in our lifetimes and even he was hardly able to make a dint.

29 posted on 06/01/2006 8:33:08 AM PDT by LurkLongley (Ad Majoram Dei Gloriam-For the Greater Glory of God)
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To: Peanut Gallery


30 posted on 06/01/2006 8:35:07 AM PDT by Professional Engineer (The lifespan of a "temporary" tax has finally been established.)
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To: Mel Gibson

It certainly is true that neither party represents our interests. The whole Washington establishment has become a party unto itself in many ways. Just look at how Hastert stood up for Jefferson the other day on the FBI raid. Congress is looking out for itself, both collectively and as individuals. The only difference between Republicans and Democrats is that Republicans will take longer to destroy the country.
I'm not certain that the answer is a third party though. If the Democrats split up the Republicans will be strengthened and have no motivation to change. If the Republicans are split up then we will be stuck with Democrats. It's sorta like pick your poison at that point. One thing I am sure of is that is time to to start talking about term limits again. It's time to end the concept of a career politician.

31 posted on 06/01/2006 8:35:48 AM PDT by Markdb
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To: Mel Gibson
I have a feeling we're at some new beginning, that a big breakup's coming

A lot of people have a feeling something is coming soon. Of course something is always coming, but being nervous about it before it gets here is not a good way to be.

32 posted on 06/01/2006 8:38:23 AM PDT by RightWhale (Off touch and out of base)
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To: Mel Gibson
Peggy lost me with this line:

"Nancy Pelosi seems to be pretty much in favor of anything that hurts Republicans, and Ken Mehlman is in favor of anything that works against Democrats."

That's just moral equivalence and a cop-out. Mehlman does not equal Pelosi on any reasonable standard of measurement. I agree that Pelosi does appear to oppose just for the sake of opposition, but I do not agree that Mehlman is equally guilty of that alleged crime and it simply won't do for Peggy to make the assertion wholly unsupported by any facts.

Look, Hastert has played the buffoon recently, Frist looks ineffective and hapless given the nature of the Senate and Bush has continued to struggle to articulate any sort of vision for the remaining years of his Administration, appearing to stumble from one fire to the next. I'm not happy with the national GOP.

But the alternative is simply unthinkable to anyone who cares. The moderate dems like Lieberman are being run right out of that party. The nutroots like Kos and Atrios increasingly pull the policy strings of the only viable political entity other than the GOP and, if I have anything to say about, I won't be governed by politicians who are in thrall to the extreme left wing kooks.

Nobody has to like it and there are ways to try and improve the GOP, but voting third party and helping to elect a Dem Congress and Hilary in 2008 ain't the way.

33 posted on 06/01/2006 8:42:41 AM PDT by borkrules
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To: Little Ray
"Something to consider:
The last time a new political party came into power we had the Civil War."

Don't you realize: WE ARE IN A CIVIL WAR RIGHT NOW!

It just does not include bullets going over our heads. Ted Kennedy, et al, drew the line several years ago when he condemned the President is viscious terms. The Traitor!!
34 posted on 06/01/2006 8:47:11 AM PDT by olinr
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To: Mel Gibson

At this point, continuing to vote for a lot of these Republicans is a lot like a woman who'd send a Valentine's card to her rapist.

35 posted on 06/01/2006 8:52:44 AM PDT by Emmett McCarthy
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To: stillonaroll

I'm well aware of that. It was the reason for my reply.

Republican's may not be ideal, but the people at the top of the Democtat party hate America.

36 posted on 06/01/2006 8:54:08 AM PDT by Jack of all Trades (Liberalism: replacing backbones with wishbones.)
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To: Bloody Sam Roberts
The two parties in Washington will stop at nothing to prevent the rise of a national third party.

Assuming you're correct, and I have no reason to doubt that you are, since I've seen third-party efforts on a local level screwed over and squashed by the major parties, what does this say about the major parties' committment to true representative government? If neither the D's nor the R's truly represent you, why shouldn't you, as a free citizen, have some other choice besides holding your nose and voting for the least objectionable candidate, (I know that this isn't always the case, but it is the case too often) or sitting it out?

Where I live, on city, local, state legislative and congressional races, there is no Republican Party. The Democrats seldom, if ever, have contested primaries, so we have a situation in my part of Illinois that we would consider to be the norm only in some third-world despotism. On statewide races, the GOP does run a full slate of candidates, but more often than not it's one slate of RINO's, and the rare actual conservative like Peter Fitzgerald are practically persona non grata to the party establishment.

On my worst and most cynical days, (not every day, mind you) I look at the current political situation overall and have to say that too many efforts of the D's and R's are not designed to provide responsible government, are not designed to serve the interests of the people, but are political games designed to try to give one gang the advantage over the other in the never-ending struggle to seize power. Oh, I forgot -- and also to enhance their individual members' careers and power and bank accounts and to take care of their friends. Which apparently does not include me, a middle-class working slob from the 10th Ward of Chicago.

So if third party, or a fourth party, can gather enough steam to scare the hell out of the D's and R's or, in my dreams, take out one or both of them, then I'm all for it. It's time to stir the pot.

37 posted on 06/01/2006 8:58:53 AM PDT by Southside_Chicago_Republican (The moving finger writes and, having writ, moves on......)
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To: Fighting Irish
...and I don't care about hearing lectures on wasting my vote. I feel like I wasted it the past 8 years.

Boohoo. Oh woes me. Politics is so political. Who would have thought?

38 posted on 06/01/2006 9:01:49 AM PDT by Smogger (It's the WOT Stupid)
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To: borkrules
You are leaving out a third option. Let's suppose, just for argument's sake that, that the dims win back the government in 2008.

Both houses, and She-who-must-not-be named in the White House, since Soros and the MSM bought it for her, and she pulls all troops out of Iraq and Afganistan, to send them on "humanitarian" missions to other third world toilets. She and and the loony left Congress decide that there are too many guns in the US, and you have too much expendable income if you can afford to buy anything past necessities.

The Feds now have a mandate to nationalize health care, since 50,000,000 Mexicans have just stampeded the Border, with GWB's blessing and support carrying every Third world disease the US worked for a century to eliminate.

The repukes are wandering around, what few remain, still taking bribes, and acting like everything is generally OK, paying lip service to small government, and promising that they will do it right next time.

Ready to vote Third Party yet?

39 posted on 06/01/2006 9:10:53 AM PDT by jonascord ("Republic. I like the sound of the word...")
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To: Smogger
Boohoo. Oh woes me. Politics is so political. Who would have thought?

I want my 40 acres and my mule dammitall!

40 posted on 06/01/2006 9:33:22 AM PDT by Fighting Irish
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