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Amnesty by Any Other Name...(Edwin Meese)
New York Times ^ | 5/24/06 | Edwin Meese III

Posted on 05/24/2006 7:00:13 AM PDT by blitzgig

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To: GarySpFc
"Amnesty is any moving from an illegal to a legal postion without the original penalty."

Correct the original penalty for illegally entering the US is deportation. If you do not deport them you are granting them amnesty. Changing the rules to paying for citizenship and proving you've broken the country's laws the longest doesn't change the original penalty. What it does is show us how republicans leaders treat their faithful like democrats when it comes to selling them BS and asking them to look the other way. We're not democrats and I resent being treated like one. What happened to the party that called Bill Clinton on PC speech every chance we got? Are we the same party that now accepts "undocumented workers", "guest worker programs" and "paths to citizenship". If we are, we are no better than democrats.

41 posted on 05/24/2006 9:11:46 AM PDT by blaquebyrd (American sovereignty is worth more than cheap lettuce)
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To: RobbyS
If they want cheap labor, they are in for a shock. The labor unions are busily signing up illegals and are doing everything in their power to get them the vote.

Its the currently apathetic Americans that'll be in for a shock - cause under the senate plan there'll always be an unlimited supply of freshly arrived illegals to replace the ones who get 'uppity' and assume their place on the lowest rung of the Great Society.

42 posted on 05/24/2006 9:51:52 AM PDT by skeeter
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To: blaquebyrd
He's saying it's already been tried and the result was 3 million turned into 30 million. He's only asking this administration to be honest with the American people.

Not enough of Americans have connected the dots between the '86 amnesty and the current demographic shift throughout the country.

And that amnesty was offered to a mere 2.9 million.

The legislation being contemplated now will make what has happened since 86 look like the trailer to a three hour film epic.

43 posted on 05/24/2006 9:57:44 AM PDT by skeeter
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To: blitzgig
Great article by Meese. He explains that Reagan's amnesty was an amnesty for a small population. And that this new one is far more radical and goes way beyond what Reagan did for only 3 million. If it was only three million this time, no one would be making much noise.

Bump for Ed Meese, defending the Reagan record. All the people bleating 'Reagan granted an amnesty' should read this to understand the differences.
44 posted on 05/24/2006 9:59:23 AM PDT by George W. Bush
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To: MNJohnnie
Hey Ed you mean like you helped Ronald Reagan to pass in 1986? THAT was a real Amnesty Ed.

As he states forthrightly in the article, Johnnie. And reminds that Reagan told us it was amnesty. Then he goes on to explain that this current legislation involves about ten times as many people, presents many other problems, and is far more radical and results in us punishing the legal immigrants who have waited five to ten years to get legal status.

Go read the article before spewing more bilge about Reagan.
45 posted on 05/24/2006 10:04:15 AM PDT by George W. Bush
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To: skeeter

Don't depend on that. There will always be demagogues who fasten on discontent. Wouldn't surprise me if a Chavez type pol shows himself in districts that run 90% Mexican. So far La Raza has not made a dent, but that could change.


46 posted on 05/24/2006 10:09:19 AM PDT by RobbyS ( CHIRHO)
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To: skeeter
"The legislation being contemplated now will make what has happened since 86 look like the trailer to a three hour film epic."

We've seen this film before yet some refuse to believe it will only get worse. Just think back 20 years ago, did we have as many bilingual signs, ATMs, telephone services? They won't assimilate like the Koreans. When was the last time you saw a choice for Korean at an ATM? Also when it comes time to enforce the new set of laws the bleeding hearts will just dust off the same arguments they are using now. We can't send back, (by then), 80 million Mexicans. We can't separate them from their anchor babies. These are not straw man argument. It's happening now and unless we learn the lesson of '86 and stop this now I don't think we ever will.

47 posted on 05/24/2006 10:11:19 AM PDT by blaquebyrd (American sovereignty is worth more than cheap lettuce)
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To: blaquebyrd
The only reason I can come up with is they know this scam won't work and they don't want it to. They want Mexican slave labor.

Well, duh. I mean, what's the point in making such a comment? It's like saying the sun rises in the east and gets more intense in the summer.

You don't see consumer goods companies debating these issues - they just make sunscreen products.

Likewise, the only point of interest are the business/political opportunities in which to become engaged. Everything else is just observing from the grandstands.

48 posted on 05/24/2006 10:16:41 AM PDT by lemura
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To: GarySpFc
Tony Snow....supported an amnesty for illegals when he was on Free Republic.

He's still supporting an amnesty. But now he wants to introduce some dishonest talking points and weasel words into the issue to make "amnesty", "not-an-amnesty."

Asserting that "learning English, keep your nose clean, have a job, and pay taxes" are "penalties" for illegal aliens is ridiculous, since that's precisely what one must due to retain permanent residency and certainly for naturalized citizenship. So they are not "penalties" at all.

The $2,000 fine is completely offset by the illegal alien's exemption from normal immigration costs such as visa applications, medical tests, police background checks, etc. Since they are already here, they won't need those.

I suspect that "11 year" waiting period will have enough loopholes to become completely null within the next three years.

49 posted on 05/24/2006 10:17:01 AM PDT by angkor
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To: lemura
"Well, duh. I mean, what's the point in making such a comment?"

The point is I didn't expect a republican president in the middle of a war to hold our border security hostage until he gets his amnesty plan. I thought a republican house/senate/president wouldn't put business/political opportunities ahead of border security. Does that answer your question?

50 posted on 05/24/2006 10:38:45 AM PDT by blaquebyrd (American sovereignty is worth more than cheap lettuce)
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To: RobbyS

La Raza types have positions of power in the California legislature and one is mayor of Los Angeles.


51 posted on 05/24/2006 10:42:40 AM PDT by NathanR (Après moi, le deluge.)
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To: RobbyS
Don't depend on that. There will always be demagogues who fasten on discontent. Wouldn't surprise me if a Chavez type pol shows himself in districts that run 90% Mexican. So far La Raza has not made a dent, but that could change.

I agree completely, but because the reason for these folks being here in the first place (employer/politician greed)isn't being addresses I see both happening simultaneously - a huge radicalized latino voting block continually fed by an endless flow of cheap labor.

52 posted on 05/24/2006 10:58:05 AM PDT by skeeter
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To: blaquebyrd
I thought a republican house/senate/president wouldn't put business/political opportunities ahead of border security.

Ok, so now you know. What are going to do about it? Answer: nothing.

53 posted on 05/24/2006 11:47:34 AM PDT by lemura
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To: blitzgig
Twenty years later, its a Bigger, Better More Improved Amnesty II. Nothing quite like the sight of failure begetting more of it. This time it will be different! Yeah, right. Its the willing suspension of belief that's triumphed over the experience of reality.

(Denny Crane: "Every one should carry a gun strapped to their waist. We need more - not less guns.")

54 posted on 05/24/2006 1:00:10 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: skeeter

Might help if you read the article.


55 posted on 05/24/2006 4:27:11 PM PDT by toddlintown
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To: Bikers4Bush

Nope. The House will cave because the spineless politicians want this issue to "go away".

Already Rep. Spence is "compromising" along Senate lines and watering down the House bills because, as he has said on talk radio, "the Senate is moving towards a comprehensive bill so we need a compromise".

No, we need NOTHING! Typical cowardly Republican. Instead of standing up and fighting for what is right and principled and maybe losing, Spence and others in the House now want to soften their bill to look more like the crap that will come out of the Senate.

The white flags are waving. And they think they won't pay a price this November because, as we have seen in this and other forums, they are counting on the "but it would be worse if the Dems are in charge" voters that always tuck tail playing the lesser of two evils game.


56 posted on 05/24/2006 4:35:01 PM PDT by Fledermaus (If we can't enforce our borders and laws, why have either? Sorry Bush - it's Amnesty!)
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To: toddlintown
I was being sarcastic.

But thanks for being helpful.

57 posted on 05/24/2006 4:35:26 PM PDT by skeeter
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To: goldstategop

If it was a summer blockbuster it would be called "Amnesty II: Bigger" or "Amnesty Returns".


58 posted on 05/24/2006 4:38:25 PM PDT by Fledermaus (If we can't enforce our borders and laws, why have either? Sorry Bush - it's Amnesty!)
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To: Fledermaus

Yeah, the price of admission for such movie, (if the back door to the theater wasn't wide open) would be at the expense of a cut-rate cheapened American Citizenship.


59 posted on 05/25/2006 3:39:48 PM PDT by So Circumstanced
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To: So Circumstanced

And those that snuck in would get free popcorn!


60 posted on 05/25/2006 4:52:40 PM PDT by Fledermaus (If we can't enforce our borders and laws, why have either? Sorry Bush - it's Amnesty!)
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