Posted on 03/29/2006 9:42:10 PM PST by Cannoneer No. 4
Set Condition 1 has some info on the contenders: Bushmaster meets the competition in the US
Airborne Combat Engineer notes The Army is looking at off-the-shelf vehicles and asks Why not buy an interim replacement for the Humvee?
Joe Katzman: Hummer Deathtraps Suck: Take 2
UPDATE: I knew I'd seen another good post on the Humvee problem just recently. In an update to his post, Joe K points out Washington Park Prophet's, um, The Humvee Problem.
For the record, Murdoc isn't necessarily down on the Humvee. But Murdoc's down on the fact that our military seems to be reacting in slow motion to this problem.
Yes, the military is a massive bureaucratic juggernaut that's about as easy to turn as a loaded supertanker and I realize that it can't just replace the Humvee overnight. But it almost seems like the decision-makers are waiting it out, hoping that Iraq settles down soon enough to head off a major course change. This, of course, doesn't seem terribly likely to happen in the first place, and it ignores the fact that we'd then be facing our next military challenge with the same Achilles heel. Not to mention the number of lives and limbs lost between now and then.
...insurgent groups around the world are upping the number of bomb-makers in their.ranks... Similar to my position on Marines in Iraq using the lightly-armored Amtrac, I recognize that just up and switching vehicles because of a particular shortcoming in a particular environment isn't generally wise. But this environment is here to stay, as is the shortcoming, so it makes sense to make a few adjustments.
No light vehicle is ever going to be bomb-proof. Some of these IEDs blow tanks to pieces. But a vehicle better-suited to the environment would do wonders for the cause.
Do not forget that every potential enemy is eating the Humvee's performance up. Potential terrorist/insurgent/jihadists are stockpiling IED material as we speak. Just as the US military is increasing the number of special forces operators and snipers, insurgent groups around the world are upping the number of bomb-makers in their ranks, hoping (waiting) for a chance to blow a passing Humvee loaded with infidels to smithereens. You know it's true.
BAE Systems RG-32M
Force Protection Inc. Cougar
Force Protection Buffalo
General Dynamics Land Systems RG-31
General Purpose Vehicles: Commander
International Oryx
LENCO Bearcat armored truck
Lawrence Livermore National Labs Gun Box
Oshkosh Truck Corp. Bushmaster
Teledyne Brown Engineering, Inc. Multipurpose Troop Transport Carrier System Box
Textron Marine Land System Armored Security Vehicle, Guardian
Windhoeker Maschinenfabrik Wer’Wolf Mk II
If our next conflict is in open country, Bradleys and Tanks will lead the way and the HumVee replacement will be called an overweight doorstop, unable to manuver in tough terrain.
The HumVee was never supposed to be an armored venhicl. It's a damned good replacement for the Jeep.
We need an armoured urban combat vehicle, they should be popular with police forces worldwide too, but that's not what the HumVee or its replacement needs to be.
SO9
ping
Open country is just what we manuever through on the way to the enemy's key terrain, which usually isn't out in the boonies.
The HumVee is too wide to get through the streets and alleys of the Afghanistan villages in the highlands. In one raid - the Americans traveled to the outskirts of town in Hum's and then transfered to the Afghan Forces Toyotas for the actual raid on a Taliban outpost in town. The Hum's couldn't get there!
I'll repost this with a page reference later!
Anyone have similar comments from cities in Iraq??
ping
Take another look at Textron Land Systems entry. I believe that that one is the one that I would saddle up in, because of the visible armament.
The Canadians could have had humvees. The chose G-Wagons.
I hear these don't hold up as well to IED's as HMMWV's.
Looks never do tell the full story.
ping
Which ones did the South African's develop?
They had a V shaped bottom which makes more sense...
OSHKOSH, Wis., Mar 06, 2006 (BUSINESS WIRE) -- Oshkosh Truck Corporation (NYSE:OSK), a leading manufacturer of specialty trucks and truck bodies, announced today that it has added an armored vehicle to its stable of combat-proven military trucks. Under a licensing agreement with the vehicle's developer, ADI Limited of Australia, Oshkosh Truck will market, manufacture and support the Bushmaster armored vehicle for North American customers as well as countries eligible for Foreign Military Sales. Senior executives from both companies signed the agreement at a ceremony held at the Australian Embassy, on Friday, Feb. 24.
The Bushmaster was originally developed by ADI, in conjunction with the Australian Defence Force. The vehicle is mine-blast resistant due to its v-shaped hull, and its armor provides IED and ballistic protection to its occupants. The vehicle's mission profile requires it to travel long distances over rough terrain and deliver its occupants to their destination as safely and comfortably as possible, making them more effective in a tactical environment. There are currently over 100 Bushmaster vehicles in service with the Australian Defence Forces, with a number of the vehicles deployed with Australian units in support of Operation Iraqi Freedom. An additional 200 vehicles are under contract and scheduled for production at ADI's Bendigo (Australia) facility.
"The Bushmaster provides Oshkosh Truck with an even greater ability to support our customer through a wider spectrum of conflict", said John Stoddart, Oshkosh's executive vice president and president, defense. "As threats and the nature of conflict have evolved, the need for vehicles offering greater safety has grown. This vehicle can meet that need by not only improving troop safety, but delivering the level of performance the military expects from an Oshkosh vehicle."
Oshkosh plans to manufacture Bushmaster vehicles at its defense manufacturing facility in Oshkosh, Wisconsin, and can support significant volumes of Bushmaster vehicle production if required. ADI's Bendigo facility will work in conjunction with Oshkosh Truck to support any increase in demand.
Steps are also being taken to integrate components currently used on Oshkosh Truck's fleet of military logistics vehicles. This will increase parts commonality between the Bushmaster and vehicles currently used by the U.S. military, making it easier and less expensive for the U.S. military to supply logistics to a Bushmaster fleet. Oshkosh Truck is already providing logistics support to the Australian Bushmaster fleet in Iraq and Afghanistan through its global parts and service network.
Oshkosh Truck Corporation (NYSE:OSK) is a leading manufacturer of specialty trucks and truck bodies for the defense, fire and emergency, concrete placement and refuse hauling markets. Oshkosh Truck is a Fortune 1000 company with products marketed under the Oshkosh(R), Pierce(R), McNeilus(R), Medtec(TM), Geesink(R), Norba(R), Jerr-Dan(R), CON-E-CO(R) and London(R) brand names. The company is headquartered in Oshkosh, Wis., and had annual sales of $2.96 billion in fiscal 2005. To learn more about Oshkosh Truck Corporation, visit its web site at www.oshkoshtruckcorporation.com
I don't believe they've left out the famous "Herkimer Battle Jitney" the finest nonlethal combat vehicle ever made! I'd paste a pic if I knew how.
src="http://data.primeportal.net/apc/fennek_arnd/Fenek%20Aufkl.10.jpg">
it's called fennek
*********AN EXCERPT *********************
The Bushmaster Infantry Mobility Vehicle is an Australian designed and built wheeled armoured vehicle produced by Australian Defence Industries Limited (ADI). The Bushmaster is designed for operations in northern Australia, and is capable of carrying 9 soldiers and their equipment, fuel and supplies for 3 days.
This issue tears me up. We can probably all agree that general transport in combat zones should be able to protect our guys from small arms fire.
We might even be able to agree that all such combat vehicles have V-hulls so that they can better survive mines/IEDs.
But some of those vehicles above are entirely inappropriate for running logistics and errands.
Don't get me wrong, scout and recon vehicles should be better armored (but even so they've got to be fast and quiet in order to sneak around)...
...and our armored personnel carriers should be improved...
...but the HMMWV is designed for what 4 to 6 people? This is the vehicle that you get in to go from one part of the base to another...something that doing all day in an M1A1 would probably strike all of us as inappropriate.
You need a general purpose vehicle for rear echelon logistics. Take the HMMWV, change its flat underbody to a V-hull with just enough armor to withstand running over a small ex-Soviet mortar, bullet-proof the sides and glass...and use that for non-combat purposes in the rear of war zones (e.g. bases, single-person transport, etc.).
Then use an armored vehicle like those shown above for recon and combat patrols. That's something that a general purpose vehicle isn't designed for.
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