Posted on 03/27/2006 5:00:44 AM PST by A. Pole
Yes, I'm biased. Please see post # 50.
Thank you.
My only bias is that I don't like Milosevic and I'm glad he's dead.
How he died I have no feelings about one way or the other; suicide, accident, murder, whatever. Dead is dead.
I guess if someone denies that YOU Red6 are a mass murderer, falls into the same class with Holocaust deniers.
And so does everyone who denies that Albanian and Bosnian Muslims were the principal victims of the war and denies that 200,000 Muslims got slaughtered and rejects the existence of rape/death camps in Bosnia.
We know
YOU CAN BE IMPRISONED
UNDER FRIVOLOUS CHARGES
AND TORTURED TO DEATH
Milosevic death is death caused by torture. More speciffically, denial of needed medical attention for life threatening condition (myocardial infarction).
Under UN Convention against Torture, there is no diplomatic immunity for this crime.
http://www.agitprop.org.au/stopnato/19990609b2stealth.php
B52’s were even shot down! http://www.aeronautics.ru/nws002/natolosses-review01.htm
According to “Vladimir” more than 20 US aircraft were shot down.
--
Now back to reality.
There really are people who really do deny the existence of concentration camps in NAZI Germany, just like there are those who want to deny the atrocities in the Balkans. The footage was of course made up. The raped women in Germany getting treated were all lying. And of course the Serb MIG29’s scored dozens of kills against the NATO “aggressors”.
I like to debate about military, politics, and economic events/trends both present day and historic. I enjoy sharing ideas and expanding my perspective. However, when you run into a close minded idiot who is bent on a world picture without having a clue but holds onto this view at all cost because of some philosophical idea, then debate is useless. You will throw any garbage into this debate, you will propagate what even you know are LIES because in the end it’s just about preserving face and some sense of national pride and a contempt for those who you see as an enemy. So, at this point I’ll gladly give you the last word and let you tell us all what an idiot you are. Please tell us some more about how all this is a “grand conspiracy” how 50-100 NATO airplanes were shot down (Depending on which magicmig.ru or Serb site you quote) including B2 and B52’s how the camps didn’t exist despite Dutch troops seeing them and freeing people, how the graves were actually Serb (Disgusting, claiming the misery you create as your own! My God, that just leaves one breathless), and and and. You had Dane’s who saw these activities before the war even started! But none of this changes anything.
You do what all others in your shoes do: Deny everything and make counter accusations in complete disregard of even sounding remotely reasonable.
You mean, Serb Mig that flew undetected underneath F-16 and dropped bombs on Albanian refugees, in order to blame NATO and USAF for that?
This was an official NATO explanation on a press conference why the column of Albanian refugees who decided to go back to their homes was bombed. Only someone of Anchorage temeperature IQ could make up such story.
Other stories are no better.
The fact that you spent some time in Germany makes you no expert on Nazism, but may explain why your post is highly suspect of NAZI REVISIONISM.
Nazi concentration camps and The Holocaust are facts! The lies about The Balkan civil war are war lies and they are documented as such. Comparing lies with the truthj has an ulterior motive, to discredit The Holocaust.
Think about it.
Bosnia was a war with 10s of thousands of armed combatants on every side. The Bosnian Muslim had the largest infantry there - which is factual, but generally unknown if you only follow the headlines.
Croatia had brigades stationed in Bosnia througout the war.
This is incomparable to the Jews who were not armed, were peaceful, non-separatists, and didn't have their own militant groups and armies in Germany.
The wars in Yugoslavia never went outside the territory of former Yugoslavia. They were tiny in geographical area compared to WWII and did not involve invasion of any other country. It was a country dissolving - and with outside covert and overt support.
And the kicker - the Bosnian Muslims have a greater share of the ethnic composition pie of Bosnia AFTER the war than before. Croatia is more pure Croat than ever and Kosovo more pure Albanian. The ethnic Serb population is the one which saw the most severe drop - particularly in Croatia where they went from 12.2% in 1991 to 4.5% in 2002.
The site you mentioned is non-Serb and run by a Ukrainian or Russian - Venik/Vladimir.
If I found out that I was part of something that was wrong I would NOT deny it.
The story of Abu Gahrib was actually broken by US service members who reported about it long before CBS ever did.
CPT Maynulet (Capt. Rogelio Maynulet) was brought up on charges, convicted a felon and dishonorably discharged because he did something wrong. The ONLY evidence there was, was a UAV video that the MSM NEVER had access to until the DoD gave them access. The DoD could have EASILY covered it up all up and the MSM would have NEVER EVER known.
The DoD could have easily covered up all kinds of things that have come into the media. The difference between you and I is that most people in the US WANT transparency and believe in freedom of the press personal responsibility and doing the right thing. Even though they support the troops, they demand that a military code of conduct is adhered by and those violating this code will be punished. There is this thing called “the law and UCMJ” and they WILL go after you if you violate it.
We won’t deny that less than 10% of all Precision guided munitions miss. We know and admit and even are accountable for certain actions and yes, we too pay for them. YOU deny it. Big difference! The Germans admit they did wrong because the majority of them were good people and to this day they too pay; and frankly like us, they should. There is a reason why the creeps operating the death camps in NAZI Germany tried to slither away at the end; why they tried to burn documents and denied they worked in them –THEY KNEW they were doing wrong just as you KNOW you’re wrong and still argue your position. That my friend, puts you right there standing next to the NAZI shoving Jews into a gas-chamber. That makes you a loathsome being. An ugly creature whom I as an officer would have booted out of the Army.
Explain also why it was only the Serb population which fell in Croatia if the Serbs were the ones doing the genocide?
The same factions the Nazis supported in the Balkans, the U.S. and Germany are supporting today.
The Jews were in no such position in WWII Germany - it WASN'T a civil war.
Jusuf Prazina:
WOW!!! So you compare Holocaust to the suffering of Bosnian and Albanian Muslims? Are you saying that the the death/rape camps in Bosnia were as real as Auschwitz/Treblinka were? Are you saying that the deaths of 200,000 Bosnian Muslims is as certain as the deaths of millions of Jews during WWII?
Because the claim of genocide of Bosnian Muslim is an attempt to whitewash the only genocide that occured in Bosnia - genocide of Serbs in WWII.
The classic Nazi arsenal of lies is used- the number of Bosnian Muslims civilians was augmented tenfold, the number of Serb civilian victims was diminished tenfold to make macabre equation.
/for mathematically chalenged - the death toll in Bosnian civil war 1992-95 was not 200,000 Bosnian Muslim civilians, it was 102,000 civilians and soldiers on all four sides -Serbs, Croats, pro-government Muslims and anti-government Muslims. The lie of 250,000, although debunked is still used to make the lie of 8000 "Bosnian men and boys massacred in Srebrenica" more believable/.
In WWII, anywhere between 460 000 and one million Serb civilians was murdered by Bosnian and Croatian Nazis.
Show me a person who speaks of genocide of Bosnian Muslims and I will show you a Nazi revisionist.
Himmler inspects Bosnian Muslim Waffen SS division Hanjar
Show me a person who compare Bosnian civil war with The Holocaust and I will show you a Nazi revisionist and The Holocaust denier in disguise.
And this claim was to divert attention from the two main crimes commited during the dissolution of Yugoslavia. The first was the massacre and expulsion of the Serbian Krajina - the centuries old land with its own traditions and sub-culture, the second was still ongoing pogrom of Serbs and Gypsies in Kosovo.
EVERYBODY can see it for himself. Just travel around former Yugoslavia and see who remains and who does not in his place.
Someone posted a link to Serbian military postcards from WWI, and one of them is of Austrians hanging Bosnian Serb civilians - just as was mentioned in Rebecca West's book "Black Lamb and Grey Falcon". She was there before WWII and saw the photos from the Sarajevo police station of this which shocked her. After the assassination of the Austrian Archduke, the Austrians started hanging civilians - peasants - including women, all around Austrian barracks in Bosnia.
"The Austrian Culture in Bosnia" (Serbian peasants hanged by the Austrian Army during World War 1)
As an officer did you kill some Serbs, or did you order others to do so? It would explain your need for dehumanization of them.
The first extermination camp on European soil was not Dachau in 1933 in Germany.
It was Doboj, in Bosnia in 1915. Eagerly operated by Austrians and manned by Croats and Muslims. Tens of thosands of Serb civilians perished there. Other concentration camps for Serbs were set up in Arad, Győr and Neusiedl am See.
What we are hearing nowadays is merely repackaged racist Austrian propaganda against Serbs, summed in war chant "Serben muss sterben" (Sebs must die).
"WOW!!! So you compare Holocaust to the suffering of Bosnian and Albanian Muslims? Are you saying that the the death/rape camps in Bosnia were as real as Auschwitz/Treblinka were? Are you saying that the deaths of 200,000 Bosnian Muslims is as certain as the deaths of millions of Jews during WWII?" You said
Absolutely!
I am not worth more than an Iraqi who also has a right to live. Hard concept for you to understand, but you are NOT a better human. You are not the "Uebermensch". You prove my point and are so ignorant that you can't even see it!
In your eyes the Bosnians are lesser in value. Their lives are petty and your words proved that. Once a human no longer sees other humans as just that: "HUMAN BEINGS WITH A RIGHT TO EXIST" you easily step into the realm of the "Final solution" which is exactly what the Germans did, which is exactly what Serbia did. Create “Lebensraum” for the “Uebermensch”.
In this case the analogy with the suffering of the Jews is dead on. The Jew too was dehumanized, made out as the “Suendenbock” that was responsible for all the Germans suffering. Shameful for you is not that you are a Serb (All nations have dirt), not that you are a Christian (I’m a Christian and I believe and TRY to live by it), not that we fought and Serbia lost. No, the shame someone like you brings on your country, people, race, or our religion is your justification of such despicable behavior. Shut your mouth before you dig your hole deeper.
Didn't you consider that by equaling those two things you might cause doubt about the events of WWII?
In your eyes the Bosnians are lesser in value.
Not true, neither original Bosnians - Serbs nor descendants of Muslim invaders of Bosnia have lower or higher value. I said that it is not true that there was a genocide in Bosnia. The closest thing to genocide in Bosnia/Croatia was the massacre and destruction of Serbian Krajina.
In this case the analogy with the suffering of the Jews is dead on. The Jew too was dehumanized,
Jews then and Serbs recently were dehumanized.
Shameful for you is not that you are a Serb
Unfortunately I do not have honor to be a Serb.
that we fought and Serbia lost
So how many Serbs did you kill?
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