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The Way It Is-Afghanistan’s sharia problem — and ours.
National Review ^ | 3-23-06

Posted on 03/24/2006 5:01:54 AM PST by SJackson

Obviously, I agree with the editorial elsewhere on National Review Online today that calls the prosecution of Abdul Rahman in Afghanistan is an “affront to civilization.” I’m constrained to note, however, that if we are willing to live in a world where policy is premised on polite fictions (purporting to give you the out not to deal with hard realities) and expressed in airy ambiguities (relieving you of the obligation to speak clearly and candidly), we will be hard-pressed to be taken seriously when we suddenly call “Time-out!” for a moment of moral clarity.

The editors say the Afghan constitution “stipulates that other religions are free to perform their ceremonies ‘within the limits of the law’ (whatever that means).” To the extent the whatever that means parenthetical endeavors to sow ambiguity into the constitution here, it fails. There is no ambiguity.

Islam is the state religion of Afghanistan. The sharia presumptively governs whenever there is not an explicit law directly on point. There is no other law regarding apostasy, and in sharia regimes, apostasy from Islam is a capital offense. End of story.

The right of other religions to perform ceremonies has nothing to do with that hard fact. (See Paul Marshall’s excellent NRO piece on this, from November 2003.) Moreover, the within the limits of the law language, far from being ambiguous, manifestly underscores that public exhibitions of the rites of other religions will only be tolerated to the limited extent Islamic law abides them.

Ceremonies, in any event, are not germane to apostasy. Islam considers a person who has become a Muslim the same way it regards territory that has come under Muslim control at some point in its history — you can’t go back. Period. (See, e.g., “Palestine” v. Israel).

The editorial’s reference to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights doesn’t help. The Declaration is not a treaty. In the U.S., it was considered merely aspirational, not binding — even by Eleanor Roosevelt, one of its principal authors. That, by the way, is the way we want it because there are many things in the Declaration that we would find objectionable if imposed here. Even if it were a treaty, treaties do not create any rights enforceable by individuals against governments, including their own governments. (Again, we would not have it otherwise in our own country.) And the right of conversion, in Islamic countries, would be construed, consistent with sharia, only as a right to convert to Islam, not from Islam.

You reap what you sow. What is happening in Afghanistan (and in Iraq) is precisely what we bought on to when we actively participated in the drafting of constitutions which — in a manner antithetical to the development of true democracy — ignored the imperative to insulate the civil authority from the religious authority, installed Islam as the state religion, made sharia a dominant force in law, and expressly required that judges be trained in Islamic jurisprudence. To have done all those things makes outrage at today’s natural consequences ring hollow.

We can pull our heads up from the sand now and say, “No, no, no! We’re nice people. We didn’t mean it that way. That’s too uncivilized to contemplate.” But the inescapable truth is: the United States made a calculated decision that it wasn’t worth our while to fight over Islamic law (indeed, we encouraged it as part of the political solution). People who objected (like moi) were told that we just didn’t grasp the cultural dynamic at work. I beg to differ — we understood it only too well.

Islamic law does not consider conviction, imprisonment, or death for apostasy to be an affront to civilization. That’s the way it is.


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To: SJackson
You reap what you sow. What is happening in Afghanistan (and in Iraq) is precisely what we bought on to when we actively participated in the drafting of constitutions which — in a manner antithetical to the development of true democracy — ignored the imperative to insulate the civil authority from the religious authority, installed Islam as the state religion, made sharia a dominant force in law, and expressly required that judges be trained in Islamic jurisprudence.

But the inescapable truth is: the United States made a calculated decision that it wasn’t worth our while to fight over Islamic law (indeed, we encouraged it as part of the political solution). People who objected (like moi) were told that we just didn’t grasp the cultural dynamic at work. I beg to differ — we understood it only too well.



Today we ask our brave troops to suffer and die for Islam and Iran...... No more billions and NO MORE BLOOD - FOR ISLAM.

They want OUR Billions and OUR BLOOD, then do it OUR AMERICAN WAY.
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21 posted on 03/25/2006 7:29:41 PM PST by TomasUSMC ((FIGHT LIKE WW2, FINISH LIKE WW2. FIGHT LIKE NAM, FINISH LIKE NAM.))
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To: mikey565

When we wrote the Japanese Constituion, we deliberately left out that the Emperor is god, we should have done the same thing with Sharia law



EX ACT LEEEE!


22 posted on 03/25/2006 7:31:33 PM PST by TomasUSMC ((FIGHT LIKE WW2, FINISH LIKE WW2. FIGHT LIKE NAM, FINISH LIKE NAM.))
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To: TomasUSMC
You reap what you sow. What is happening in Afghanistan (and in Iraq) is precisely what we bought on to when we actively participated in the drafting of constitutions which — in a manner antithetical to the development of true democracy — ignored the imperative to insulate the civil authority from the religious authority, installed Islam as the state religion, made sharia a dominant force in law, and expressly required that judges be trained in Islamic jurisprudence.

Include the palestinian authority in that one, their "consitution" contains the same conflict between acknowledged "freedoms", and the acknowledgement of sharia.

23 posted on 03/26/2006 6:01:02 AM PST by SJackson ([Iraq] Reconstruction isn’t news is it? Chris Matthews)
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To: dennisw; Cachelot; Nix 2; veronica; Catspaw; knighthawk; Alouette; Optimist; weikel; Lent; GregB; ..
If you'd like to be on or off this middle east/political ping list, please FR mail me.
Articles on Israel can also be found by clicking the keyword or topic Israel.

---------------------------

24 posted on 03/26/2006 6:07:13 AM PST by SJackson ([Iraq] Reconstruction isn’t news is it? Chris Matthews)
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To: agere_contra
The article writer seems to think that because the Afghani's have democratically chosen to continue Shariah, then that makes it all right.

I don't think that it what he is saying at all.

He is a saying that US officials were wholly disengaged from reality who thought that the angels of Islam's better nature would neutralize the worst excesses of the Qu'ran if only a "democratic" constitution were adopted by the Afghani people.

Islam has no angel of better nature. Individual Muslims may be peaceable and inoffensive, but the Qu'ran and the Sharia are textbooks for murder, mayhem, and subjugation of non-Muslims. There is just no way to excise that text without fundamentally altering Islam in the process, and no believing Muslim (radical or moderate) is likely ever to vote to alter Islam in that manner.

I believe it is becoming clear that although democracy may be possible in a Muslim-dominated country, it is a dangerous and subjugating form of democracy that is alien to the west.

25 posted on 03/26/2006 6:36:50 AM PST by JCEccles
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To: JCEccles

although democracy may be possible in a Muslim-dominated country, it is a dangerous and subjugating form of democracy that is alien to the west.



Not just alien but deadly for the West.

No more billions and BLOOD for ISLAM.


26 posted on 03/26/2006 5:25:55 PM PST by TomasUSMC ((FIGHT LIKE WW2, FINISH LIKE WW2. FIGHT LIKE NAM, FINISH LIKE NAM.))
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To: agere_contra

Something else....

There are more Christians being martyred today than at any other time in history," said Glenn Penner, communications director of the Voice of the Martyrs.


Penner says the International Journal of Missionary Research estimates that from June 2005 until June 2006, about 171,000 Christians are expected to be murdered simply because of what they believe. That's up from 168,000 murders of Christians in the previous year.


27 posted on 03/26/2006 5:33:23 PM PST by TomasUSMC ((FIGHT LIKE WW2, FINISH LIKE WW2. FIGHT LIKE NAM, FINISH LIKE NAM.))
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