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Illegal Detour: Thinking reasonably about immigration.
National Review ^ | 3/17/6 | Ramesh Ponnuru

Posted on 03/17/2006 2:45:24 PM PST by Crackingham

llegal immigration is not a big problem in America. Okay, let me amend that before pots and pans and worse things come flying at me. America has some serious immigration problems, but they are not distinctively problems of illegal immigration. If we focus narrowly on illegal immigration, we are likely to come up with counterproductive solutions.

Almost all of the things that cause people to complain about illegal immigration are true of much legal immigration as well. If your worry is that illegal immigrants tend to raise government spending, for example, then you ought to be worried about legal immigrants, too. Half of legal immigrants have not gone past high school. Like illegal immigrants, they cost federal and state governments billions of dollars each year.

Or perhaps you’re concerned that illegal immigrants hurt low-income workers by driving low-end wages down. If so, you should be almost as concerned about legal immigration. Illegal immigrants tend to be paid less than legal immigrants, but the difference is small and largely reflects the fact that on average illegal immigrants have slightly less education than legal immigrants.

Maybe you’re afraid that the United States is importing social problems through illegal immigration. Without illegal immigration, we would have fewer poor people and fewer people without health insurance. There would be less strain on our health-care system and less likelihood that your taxes will go up in the future to take care of these problems. The difference with legal immigration, especially the unskilled kind, is one of degree…


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: 109th; aliens; illegalaliens; illegalimmigration; immigrantlist; immigration; immigrationreform; nationalsecurity; ponnuru; reform
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1 posted on 03/17/2006 2:45:25 PM PST by Crackingham
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To: Crackingham
Please call them INVADERS and don't compare them to people who are legal!


President Bush has been great on most things except for our border.
He has been great on the war on terrorists.
But on the border he is a gross failure.
He acted fast and correct on the 3,000+ people murdered at the world trade center.
He ignores the many rapes, murders and robberies which might be larger than the murders and money loss at the world trade center.
More Americans are abducted on the border of Mexico than in Iraq!

Start building the fence.

It should be made a felony for Criminals who overstay their visas and Invaders.

I believe we should give amnesty to these poor CRIMINALS or INVADERS.
This should be a 2 week amnesty to get the heck out of our Country.
The ones who ignore this amnesty should be buried in a tent city jail and fined $10,000 or buried elsewhere.
All aiders and abettors of these CRIMINALS or INVADERS should get 1 year in a tent city jail and a $10,000 fine for each CRIMINAL aided.
Those in government should be the first ones charged.
2 posted on 03/17/2006 2:47:58 PM PST by HuntsvilleTxVeteran ("Remember the Alamo, Goliad and WACO")
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To: Crackingham
America has some serious immigration problems, but they are not distinctively problems of illegal immigration

Hint: first of all, illegal aliens cause problems by their very illegal nature. Second, a sound LEGAL immigration program can help address the economic concerns raised here. And third, if LEGAL immigrants cost so much, then where is the real economic benefit to this country, other than to provide cheap labor to companies, leaving taxpayers to pay the balance of the tab? Some benefit.

3 posted on 03/17/2006 2:50:20 PM PST by dirtboy (I'm fat, I sleep most of the winter and I saw my shadow yesterday. Does that make me a groundhog?)
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To: Crackingham

The Russian Immigrant living with us is much more highly educated than most Americans But the same can't be said for those seeking assylum much of the time. Still, to me the difference is in the legal or illegal aspect.


4 posted on 03/17/2006 2:51:46 PM PST by cripplecreek (Never a minigun handy when you need one.)
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To: Crackingham

The problem is NOT "immigration" you dolt, it's I-L-L-E-G-A-L Immigration, and the squishy traitorous pols that want to give them amnesty.


5 posted on 03/17/2006 2:52:04 PM PST by trubluolyguy (Islam is a Cult of Death that has been infiltrated by a few non-violent believers.)
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To: Crackingham

The problem my friend is it is ILLEGAL! All the other issues are butter on the rice. By rewarding illegal entry, the US in effect punishes those that seek to enter the United States through legal means. What's the point of even having immigration policy if it is not enforced?


6 posted on 03/17/2006 2:56:52 PM PST by Sam Gamgee (May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't. - Patton)
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To: Crackingham
Heh, I think we have all come to the same conclusion. Is the the thinking of the average liberal bleeding heart?
7 posted on 03/17/2006 2:58:20 PM PST by Sam Gamgee (May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't. - Patton)
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To: trubluolyguy

What a worthless article.


8 posted on 03/17/2006 2:58:43 PM PST by Shermy
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To: Crackingham
ILLEGAL CRIMINAL ALIEN INVADERS from Mexico amount to an undeclared act of war and should be treated as such.

Remember the ALAMO II.

9 posted on 03/17/2006 3:02:06 PM PST by ncountylee (Dead terrorists smell like victory)
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To: Crackingham

"Half of legal immigrants have not gone past high school."

No, but they respected our laws and country enough to want to go through the process and become part of the USA, as a true and faithful citizen to it's idea of liberty, for those who abide by the laws and work hard and learn English.


10 posted on 03/17/2006 3:06:15 PM PST by Sweetjustusnow ("You're either with us or with the terrorists." Time to live up to that statement Mr. President.)
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To: Shermy

I expect many more of these articles in an attempt to water down the issue to where we just throw in the towel.

Usually its's the enemy doing it. Not supposed conservatives.


11 posted on 03/17/2006 3:08:16 PM PST by trubluolyguy (Islam is a Cult of Death that has been infiltrated by a few non-violent believers.)
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To: Shermy

so basically we learned there are degrees of criminals
and degrees of worthless people. some are more worthless than others.


12 posted on 03/17/2006 3:09:19 PM PST by Rakkasan1 (Muslims pray to Allah, Allah prays to Chuck Norris.)
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To: Sam Gamgee

That would be my ad in a campaign. Warn other ethnic groups that tend to come legally, that their families and friends entry into the US are being jeopardized. Use the movie theater analogy. A theater has only so many seats and tickets. People who come here illegally are like people who cut the line to the ticket office. By the time you get to the office, all the tickets are gone thus your opportunity to get into the show. Opportunity to come to the US as an legal immigrant should be fairly shared with other parts of the world. Illegal immigrants coming in from Mexico and Latin America are jeopardizing legal immigrants from Europe, Asia, India, Africa and other parts of the world by hogging an unfair share of the entrant slots available.


13 posted on 03/17/2006 3:10:16 PM PST by Fee (`+Great powers never let minor allies dictate who, where and when they must fight.)
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The article is stupid. We can control legal immigrants. We can not control illegal immigrants. That's the problem.


14 posted on 03/17/2006 3:18:03 PM PST by webboy45
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To: Crackingham

We admit something like a million and a half immigrants per year.

This is a policy that has been imposed without any of us ever being asked. Is this a good number? The right number? Ten times the right number?

No one has ever talked about it publicly, and no one has asked the citizen his opinion on the matter, in fact if you bring up the subject most politicians will run from the room as if he were on fire.

And if you bring up the subject in public, the unemployables in the news media will accuse you of racism, and shut down all possibility of a reasoned discussion.

You have to wonder, what is it they are afraid of?

Its about time we had this national discussion, and its about time ordinary citizens were acknowledged as having a stake in the matter.

In the meantime, though, before we really get wound up talking about it, I insist that we secure the border. Its high time we talk about immigration, but lets talk about it right after we secure the border.


15 posted on 03/17/2006 3:18:16 PM PST by marron
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To: trubluolyguy

"I expect many more of these articles in an attempt to water down the issue to where we just throw in the towel."

National Review is generally not as good a venue for the pro-illegal business lobby planted stories than, say, the WSJ. But they can try in their own way!

Any writer in NR who comes out against illegals won't be getting cushy think tank projects and other ways money is conduited I suppose.


16 posted on 03/17/2006 3:18:43 PM PST by Shermy
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To: Crackingham

All great civilizations in the the past were brought down by illegal immigration by overwhelming numbers of barbarians. Unable to assimilate and too primitive to progress they brought down the civilized culture to their level.

President Bush, call your office.


17 posted on 03/17/2006 3:21:27 PM PST by R.W.Ratikal
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To: marron

"This is a policy that has been imposed without any of us ever being asked. Is this a good number? The right number? Ten times the right number?"

This is exactly how Democracy fails. When the people lose a say in their government, which we essentially have, the public loses it's ability to make decisions for themselves. We elect rich, elitist snobs to office every election, simply because it is the only choice we are given. Whether it be Rep or Dem matters little anymore, because they are cut from the same cloth. It is for this reason that I tend to like the British political system better than our own. Though not perfect, at least they give their citizens every opportunity to speak their mind and put like minded people in office.


18 posted on 03/17/2006 3:23:27 PM PST by SC33
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To: Crackingham
Benjamin Franklin considered the Pennsylvania Germans to be a "swarthy" racial group distinct from the English majority in the colony. In 1751 he complained, "Why should the Palatine Boors be suffered to swarm into our Settlements, and by herding together establish their Language and Manners to the exclusion of ours? Why should Pennsylvania, founded by the English, become a Colony of Aliens, who will shortly be so numerous as to Germanize us instead of our Anglifying them, and will never adopt our Language or Customs, any more than they can acquire our Complexion?" (The papers of Benjamin Franklin. Ed. Leonard W. Labaree. New Haven: Yale Univ. Press, 1959. vol 4:234).

The Germans were accused by other eighteenth-century Anglos of laziness, illiteracy, clannishness, a reluctance to assimilate, excessive fertility, and Catholicism. They were even blamed for the severe Pennsylvania winters. (Feer 1952, 403; Mittelberger 1898, 104).

Most irritating to Pennsylvania's English-firsters in the latter 1700s was German language loyalty, although it was clear that, despite community efforts to preserve their language, Germans were adopting English and abandoning German at a rate that should have impressed the rest of the English-speaking population.

19 posted on 03/17/2006 3:30:43 PM PST by AmusedBystander
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To: Crackingham

How many crimes could 20 plus million illegals (maybe 30 million) do in this country?.. What is the cost of those crimes?.. How many citizens are effected?.. How do these illegals affect Vincente Fox and his government that is a Drug Cartel?.. What linkage to the White House does Vince have?.. and WHY?..




20 posted on 03/17/2006 3:38:56 PM PST by hosepipe (CAUTION: This propaganda is laced with hyperbole..)
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