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To: justshutupandtakeit
Hamilton not only foresaw eventual rebellions but spoke explicitly of the ability and duty of the Union to put them down with military force if necessary. In fact, only through having the government operate directly upon citizens can Civil War be averted. "It seems to require no pains to prove that the States ought not to prefer a national Constitution [the Articles] which could only be kept in motion by the instrumentality of a large army continually on foot to execute the ordinary requisitions or decrees of the government. And yet this is the plain alternative involved by those who wish to deny it the power of extending its operations to individuals." FP 16 Hamilton

And, of course, there is this from Hamilton [NY ratification debate]:

It has been well observed, that to coerce the States is one of the maddest projects that was ever devised. A failure of compliance will never be confined to a single State. This being the case, can we suppose it wise to hazard a civil war? Suppose Massachusetts or any large State should refuse, and Congress should attempt to compel them, would not they have influence to procure assistance, especially from those States which are in the same situation as themselves? What picture does this present to our view? A complying State at war with a non-complying State; Congress marching the troops of one State into the bosom of another; this State collecting auxiliaries, and forming, perhaps, a majority against its federal head. Here is a nation at war with itself! Can any reasonable man be well disposed towards a Government which makes war and carnage the only means of supporting itself -- a Government that can exist only by the sword? Every such war must involve the innocent with the guilty. This single consideration should be sufficient to dispose every peaceable citizen against such a Government.

1,270 posted on 04/12/2006 11:38:18 AM PDT by rustbucket
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To: rustbucket

Unfortunately for the South the madmen which led it did not pay attention to those warnings or they would have never attacked the United States forces. But, like other tyrants, they made their mistake and the entire region paid for their folly for the next hundred years.

Hamilton argued precisely the same at the convention as in the Federalist that the only way to avoid civil war was by increasing the power of the Union by ensuring that the Constitution and government had direct impact upon the citizens without the necessity of State intervention. Of course, the DS argue that the constitution does not do that but that is just one more example of them being incorrect about almost any historic event.


1,273 posted on 04/12/2006 12:43:07 PM PDT by justshutupandtakeit (If you believe ANYTHING in the Treason Media you are a fool.)
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To: rustbucket; Gianni; GOPcapitalist
Gentlemen, you're confusing him with FACTS. In honour of the moment, why not revisit the Ballad of Ft. Jeff Davis, penned by GopCapitalist for the edification of one Capitan Refugio/Jaguartype, based on claims by CR/J that Ft. Davis was CAPTURED by Union forces (it was deserted!):
"THE BALLAD OF FORT JEFF DAVIS"

In 1860 the temperature increased
So we went with Genr'al Carlton cross the desert to the east.
We loaded up our hard tack but it fell a little short
Then we fought hallucinations there at old Jeff Davis' fort.

CHORUS:
We fired our guns and the mirage kept a'comin.
There wasn't nigh as many as there was a while ago.
We fired once more and they began to runnin' on
Down the Rio Grand-e to the Gulf of Mexico.

We looked 'cross the desert and we see'd the rebels come.
Some bouncen apparitions of'em beatin' on the drum.
They zagged across the evening sky an floated through the night
We tried to shoot then cap'n said "ain't dat the Marfa light?".

CHORUS:
We fired our guns and the mirage kept a'comin.
There wasn't nigh as many as there was a while ago.
We fired once more and they began to runnin' on
Down the Rio Grand-e to the Gulf of Mexico.

Old Carlton said we could camp there for a bit
So we had a great big weenie roast, that fort it looked like sh*t
We slept inside the baracks on the dusty earthen floor
Till the injun's came a stirrin an they made off with the door!

CHORUS:
Well, we fired our guns and Apaches kept a'comin.
There soon was twice as many as there was a while ago.
They came right back an' we began to runnin'
Back up the Rio Grand-e from the Gulf of Mexico.

We fired at the injuns till the ammo horde was down down
So we grabbed ourselves a cactus & we fought another round.
Stuffed it full of carpetbags and dried up desert mud
But when we touched the powder off, fizz! It was a dud!

CHORUS:
Yeah, we tripped through the sinkholes and we ran through the cactus
We flopped across the desert where the scorpion wouldn't go.
We ran so fast old Fort Davis couldn't keep us
And we left the Rio Grand-e and the Gulf of Mexico

We pulled back to the mill site there in old El Paso town.
And we told 'em bout the battle with the ghost rebs we had found.
We'd made a charge an taked the place but time was runnin' short
Yet we struck a blow to Richmond now by takin' Davis Fort!

Yeah, we tripped through the sinkholes and we ran through the cactus
We flopped across the desert where the scorpion couldn't go.
We ran so fast old Fort Davis couldn't keep us
And we left the Rio Grand-e and the Gulf of Mexico.

Flip, two, three four,
Flop, two three four,
Flip, two three four,
Flop...
Maybe we can get GopCapitalist to pen a version for JSUAFI regarding sovereignty.
1,274 posted on 04/12/2006 12:43:09 PM PDT by 4CJ (Tu ne cede malis, sed contra audentior ito, qua tua te fortuna sinet.)
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