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To: ml1954; xzins; Elsie; blue-duncan; Alamo-Girl; betty boop; metmom; zeeba neighba; Buggman
Interesting rebuttal....after well over a day.

What kind of rebuttal do you want? You spam that over nearly every thread. It doesn't prove a thing. Let me explain. From your spam:

4.0 Telling Whether a Speciation Event Has Occurred

What evidence is necessary to show that a change produced in a population of organisms constitutes a speciation event? The answer to this question will depend on which species definition applies to the organisms involved.

Exactly. If you define "speciciation" broadly enough, you can claim that there have been observable instances of evolutionary speciation. Here's an example from your spam:

Crossley (1974) was able to produce changes in mating behavior in two mutant strains of D. melanogaster. Four treatments were used. In each treatment, 55 virgin males and 55 virgin females of both ebony body mutant flies and vestigial wing mutant flies (220 flies total) were put into a jar and allowed to mate for 20 hours. The females were collected and each was put into a separate vial. The phenotypes of the offspring were recorded. Wild type offspring were hybrids between the mutants. In two of the four treatments, mating was carried out in the light. In one of these treatments all hybrid offspring were destroyed. This was repeated for 40 generations. Mating was carried out in the dark in the other two treatments. Again, in one of these all hybrids were destroyed. This was repeated for 49 generations. Crossley ran mate choice tests and observed mating behavior. Positive assortative mating was found in the treatment which had mated in the light and had been subject to strong selection against hybridization. The basis of this was changes in the courtship behaviors of both sexes. Similar experiments, without observation of mating behavior, were performed by Knight, et al. (1956).

So here you start with two batches of mutant flies (which are highly unlikely to mate in the first place), put them in a jar (so they can't do anything BUT mate), and then mate them for 49 generations while disposing of every single hybrid offspring (as if that would spontaneously happen in real life) and when you are done you have a new (let's call it a) "species" of fly which is defined as a 89th generation mutant fly that has "evolved" a change "in courtship behavior"!

Wow! Natural Darwinian Evolution in action! (as if any of this could possibly have occurred in a natural setting and as if a modification is sexual behavior after 89 generations of mutant fly sex is an example of "speciation".

I call it an example of deliberative attempted change in inherent behavior produced by intricate deliberative attempted "intelligent design." The flies were still flies, even though the intelligent "designer" started out with two strains of mutant flies and force mated them against their wills for scores of generations.

And interestingly enough, in similar "experiments" they were unable to reproduce the same results. Surprise!

So what is there to "rebut"?

1,310 posted on 03/02/2006 3:37:55 PM PST by P-Marlowe (((172 * 3.141592653589793238462) / 180) * 10 = 30.0196631)
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To: P-Marlowe

Please define speciation as you see it. What would define one species from another. How can we use your definition in the future.

thank you.


1,313 posted on 03/02/2006 3:45:56 PM PST by whattajoke
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To: P-Marlowe

What kind of rebuttal do you want? You spam that over nearly every thread. It doesn't prove a thing. Let me explain. From your spam:

...uuugh, I didn't post the post you referred to as spam. Perhaps you should ping the poster who posted it.

1,316 posted on 03/02/2006 3:49:40 PM PST by ml1954 (NOT the disruptive troll seen frequently on CREVO threads)
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To: P-Marlowe
...as if a modification is sexual behavior after 89 generations of mutant fly sex is an example of "speciation".

If it prevents interbreeding, it is.

1,323 posted on 03/02/2006 3:54:39 PM PST by Virginia-American
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