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To: Irontank

You know, if you want your questions answered, there are many tens of thousands of posts on similar thread you could look up. It's late, and I don't really care to get into it all again.

I do, however, think it is ludicrous to blame Lincoln for the collapse of constitutional government, as with the notable exception of Reconstruction the pre-war conditions returned after the war for many decades. Depending on whom you want to believe, the gradual growth in the power of the federal government really began with Teddy R., with Wilson during WWI, or with FDR and the New Deal.

Lincoln provided a precedent for what a President might have to do to preserve the Union in a civil war. Not for our present overpowering federal government during peacetime.

BTW, most of the "unconstitutional acts" of Lincoln were also implemented by Davis. War, especially civil war, is really, really hard on civil rights. War is Hell, and all that. People fighting for their lives are allowed to kill justifiably. States or nations fighting for their lives will probably also do things they would never do when they weren't forced into it.

If you think the old boys who wrote the Constitution were advocates of civil rights for the opposition during a civil war, look up how they treated the Loyalists. A great deal worse than how Lincoln treated traitors.


12 posted on 01/18/2006 4:12:36 PM PST by Restorer
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To: Restorer
....with the notable exception of Reconstruction the pre-war conditions returned after the war for many decades

No, they didn't. The States became afterthoughts, bypassed by the "malefactors of great wealth" who understood that "access capitalism" meant access in the national capital where all power lay.

The old Republic was dead forever, replaced by something else -- a national empire, run by plutocrats and paid for by the prostrate People, who had to pay "all the traffic will bear" while perforce selling their crops and herds into markets controlled and manipulated by the malefactors.

14 posted on 01/18/2006 5:50:03 PM PST by lentulusgracchus ("Whatever." -- sinkspur)
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To: Restorer
BTW, most of the "unconstitutional acts" of Lincoln were also implemented by Davis.

"They all did it" isn't an argument, it's an excuse -- just like "I was only following orders." Henry Wirz's jury and executioners didn't buy that one, and neither should we.

15 posted on 01/18/2006 5:53:09 PM PST by lentulusgracchus ("Whatever." -- sinkspur)
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To: Restorer

"A great deal worse than how Lincoln treated traitors."

Yep, those are fighting words for sure....
My ancestors weren't traitors. Secession wasn't rebellion.
You really should watch your verbage. By the way, we aren't discussing Davis. Just Lincoln.


19 posted on 01/18/2006 6:37:02 PM PST by TexConfederate1861
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