Posted on 01/10/2006 1:49:22 AM PST by nickcarraway
SUSHI DAS discovers what men think about feminism.
'FEMINISM has turned women into selfish, spoiled, spiteful, powerless victims," shrieked the email. "Men are talking, can't you hear it? Marriage rates are down, birthrates are down, men are using women for their pleasure and then leaving them."
If it was only one of a handful of emails I received, I might not have given it much thought. But there were many more. "I do not think it's men or boys that need reforming. I think women are the main instigators of hate against one half of the population," wrote another man.
Then there was this: "I have healthy relationships with women and always have protected sex to avoid entrapment … why should I risk losing everything I own and having my children taken away from me?"
And this: "The modern guy is not looking for the 'services' past generations did, they often just want a nice person to share their life with, rather than someone who is going to be climbing corporate ladders, getting pregnant when she chooses and then assuming complete control of a child's life. That is not to say they are not supportive of women's careers and goals."
The emails were a response to a challenge I posed to men on this page a couple of weeks ago. Specifically, I asked them to engage in debates relating to "feminist issues" and show they understood that equality, women's rights, the work/life imbalance, the declining birthrate, sexual politics and relationships generally are important to everybody, not just women.
I received, a tsunami of emails. Many were considered arguments. A significant number were the bitter outpourings of men hurt by women. Some elucidated the frustrations of men who couldn't find Ms Right. Sadly, many were simply vitriolic or abusive.
In the hundreds of emails, anger appeared to be the underlying emotion because the writers believed the pendulum had swung too far in favour of women. There were some common threads: men were angry that women's needs took priority over theirs; they felt men constituted the majority of the unemployed, the homeless, the victims of industrial accidents and suicides, that men's health received less funding than women's, and that boys' education was poor. In relationships, they felt some women were "not very nice to men" and were often too selfish to consider their needs. These concerns are real,
but how many can really be blamed on feminism?
Essentially, men raised three broad concerns over why they did not engage in the debate on feminist issues. First, they were scared of being howled down by aggressive feminists who dismissed their views. Second, they felt they were victims too, but women didn't listen to them. Third, they were confused about what women really wanted and what constituted appropriate behaviour.
On the first issue, I agree, some women are dismissive of men's views simply because they are men. Men who speak out, wrote one man, are "smashed upon the rocks of indignation" and this made it "a very, very scary debate to engage with". Another said: "Opting out of an argument in which we cannot hope to be allowed an equal voice let alone a fair outcome is a perfectly rational response."
My response? Get over it. If you're a man and you have an opinion, speak out. Put your case. It will stand or fall on its merit. Stop being scared. There are plenty of women willing to listen. And if you get howled down, get up and say it again. That's how women got their voices heard in the 1970s.
On the issue of men as victims, some argued women too are violent, that men have few rights on abortion, that female teachers get off more lightly when they sexually abuse male students, that men are vilified as pedophiles, that affirmative action is discriminatory, that women frequently win the custody battle. Clearly these concerns require attention. Perhaps it is governments that are not listening to men, rather than women.
Finally, some men were unsure of their role in society. This is complex, and women must recognise this. But men should also let common decency be their guide to appropriate behaviour. Being a decent human being shouldn't be that hard.
Equality is a prerequisite for development. When the shouting from our respective corners is over, perhaps resentment from both sides will melt.
Many emails I received were a cry from the heart from men. But it's not just about women listening to their words, it's about men taking action to improve their own lives. This means speaking out, whatever the consequences — engaging in the debate on equality or feminism or whatever it is called these days.
With that in mind, I'll leave the last words to a man: "Damned if we do, damned if we don't. We need to speak though. We do not want our daughters growing up stunted by arguments or situations that could have been campaigned away. Equally, our sons require education. But how do we do this with integrity? That's the challenge for all involved."
Well, here's what I like:
-makes an effort to look nice, but not obsessed with health food and rampant excersize
-can be just as comfortable in cut-off shorts and a dirty t-shirt outside in the garden as in an evening dress
-good sense of humor, a little quirky, a little raunchy, a little dry, but classy when she needs to be
-can handle a gun
-can appreciate South Park Humor
-does NOT get into the girl-power-lesbian celebrity worship (Rosie O'Donnell, Melissa Etheridge etc)
Basically I like a girl-next-door South Park Republican.
They tend to either:
-not exist
-not like me
-be married
Sigh...
There are PLENTY of American women uncorrupted and untainted by feminism and who resist and attack it. And many of them are right here on this forum. For American men, such as yourself, to claim otherwise, is a LIE.
If there's some women in this country that aren't desired because of their attitudes, then fine. I might say the same for some men. But to rage and bully women here because some woman somewhere did them wrong is wrong. And it should be called wrong."
Well said. I would have thought so too. Where is the natural male protective instinct?
There's lots of gals like that out there, and we aren't all married yet. You'll find her. How old are ya?
Just now catching up.
""Choosing" to love someone again, I hear mostly from men. Women either love or they don't. It isn't a choice, it's just there"
najida, you had me till this one. It's this kind of thinking that has ruined a lot of marriages. I have a lot of experience with this, and trust me, love is not a passive verb. To quote the Clint Black song, it's "Something that we do". As I always say, when someone says "I don't love you anymore", what they really mean is "I don't WANT to love you anymore.
Let me tell you a story, and I'll have to get a little personal to do it. When I decided to marry my the woman who is now my wife, I was most definately not "in love", in the sense of fireworks and not being able to eat or sleep. She was my best friend, but I'm not really sure I 'loved' her at all, in the way we use the term today. I was young, impulsive, and I decided I wanted to get married, and I wanted it to be with her, my best friend. Probably not the best place to start, by today's standards. But marry we did.
Once we got through those first 5 years, and quit trying to change each other, things sailed pretty smoothly. We learned that we were a good team, if we used our differences in a complementary fashion. So the years went by. And I had promised before God to love her, so I tried as best I could (in the "active verb" sense)
And a funny thing happened. It took all those years, but I fell 'in love' with her. Now, when she enters the room, I catch my breath. My mood totally lightens in her presence. Now, she's in her 40's, and I guess she's probably not a beauty queen by most people's standards. Lord knows, we could both lose a little weight.
But when I look at her, I don't see that. I see us moving into our first house in 1989. I see her gentle hands consoling me when the doctor told me I can't father children. I see her there at the airport, holding our son, just off the plane from Korea. I see her almost fainting when they surprised us with the news that our son's birthmother had had a girl, and wanted to keep the children together. I see her caring for her terminally ill father, then her mother, and the grace she showed. I see her crying like a baby as we stood behind the fire trucks and watched our house burn down. I see her beaming with pride when our son hits a home run.
I see a lifetime of shared experiences. And it makes her, to me, the most beautiful, captivating woman in the world.
The "In Love" part came to me, because first I "chose" to love.
I made the comment, to make a point other than the one I made. Some TRUTHS are too hurtful and derogatory and are better left unsaid AND frequently are NOT the WHOLE truth. I usually stay away from such comments except when I believe it necessary to make that same point, because I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings.
I'm 28.
Women have a shelf life? What a lovely sentiment. I'd check my expiration date, but I'm too busy looking for twenty years younger to marry.
A beautifully moving post. Your wife sure is extremely blessed. You both are.
You're young yet... took me awhile to find the right one. I was 36 when I did find him. Hopefully yours is closer :~D
PING yesterday's Phyllis Schlafly thread. An arch-anti-feminist - PD
Very sweet post :~D
Yeah, but between me and my also single and childess 24 year old sister, we're both getting the "I want grandkids" speeches from Mom...
That's what moms do. :~D
It's not that hard to understand. He's a young man who got dumped and he's still hurting from it.
I'm not too easygoing when I am in the presence of feminists who usually oppose most of what I believe and hold near and dear. : )
However, your anger is palpable and your demeanor is that of a man who hates women. There is and always has been women haters just as there is and always has been men haters.
Most of the women on this forum deeply love and respect GOOD men, and have opposed feminism. They deserve to be teated more respectfully.
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