Raising the volume on what men think about feminism

The Age ^ | Sushi Das

[JasonC]

I give respect out with an eyedropper following real achievements, and no I do not respect people merely for the offices they hold.

I believe Acton put it, in the context of the evils of various popes and another historian's tendency to whitewash them, "great men are almost always bad men. Nor can there be any greater heresy than that the office sanctifies the holder of it. That is where the negative of Catholicism and the negation of liberalism meet and hold high festival, and the end learns to justify the means." Cesare Borgia as a pope is not to be respected as a pope, but to be damned as Cesare Borgia, murderer.

Respect is earned by virtuous conduct, meaning first and foremost service to others, and that is the basis of any good marriage, if there are any left.

[TAdams8591]

"instead of attacking its opponents"

Jason C it is YOU who jumped on this thread attacking it's opponents.

[John O]

John, that man has run through this thread being rude to every woman on it. Do you honestly think he deserves respect?

Perhaps I replied to his post out of context? For his actions he deserves no respect. A husband always deserves respect, a wife always deserves respect, a president always deserves respect. A rude, crude, crass, and otherwise socially objectionable person does not deserve respect.

(Were they not talking about husbands and wives? If not I guess I'm guilty of posting without reading again)

[TAdams8591]

He seems to be angry and bitter at ALL women and you are definitely part of that group.

[TAdams8591]

"But I am proudly a misogynist"

Do you understand MYSOGYNIST means you hate ALL women, not just the feminists?

[John O]

no I do not respect people merely for the offices they hold.P> That's incredibly sad. If you do not respect the office then you cannot respect the Constitution (because the Constitution establishes the office) and if you do not respect the Constitution how can you respect the country?

Respect is earned by virtuous conduct, meaning first and foremost service to others, and that is the basis of any good marriage, if there are any left.

But the first measure of respect is due to position. You are to honor (respect) your father. Why, because he's your father. He could turn out to be a real buttwipe but he's still your father. God tells us to respect him regardless

[JasonC]

I don't give a darn about you enough to be angry with you. I replied to a post of yours the expressed feminist sentiments and said attacks on feminist principles gave you a headache and made you want to go have fun, by telling you to go have fun then, far away from me. Which was expressing the general principle, nobody needs to worry their heads about offending feminist pieties, because they aren't pieties but impieties, and nobody needs feminists themselves.

[najida]

OK,
I understand you a lot better now.

Have a good life sugar :)

[HairOfTheDog]

(Were they not talking about husbands and wives? If not I guess I'm guilty of posting without reading again)

It's true it's all mixed up, that's the way these forums go. His post about respect being earned was just about the only fair and reasonable thing he's said on this thread so far. Husbands earn respect by being loving husbands. Love and respect is still earned, even in marriage, perhaps especially in marriage.

You know this... I know you do. You know there is a responsibility to remain respectable even after marriage. There's more in the vows besides 'till death do us part'.

[JasonC]

Actually, I responded to the original article writer (way back at post 223), initially, without paying any attention yet to other's comments. Then I went back and read a few comments from others on that page and the first page, and gave my reactions to their reactions. I have no idea who on the thread is or is not a woman and couldn't care less. We are discussing feminist ideology and the position put forth by the writer of the original article. My position is obvious enough I hope - feminism does not deserve any more respect than communism does, and those who defend it our enemies of conservatives. Perfectly clear. If you consider that an attack, it shows where you put yourself, that is all.

[TAdams8591]

It is my pleasure to accept you apologies, John O.

I once had a male friend who for some reason I have forgotten, discovered as a teenager he would be unable to father children. Everytime a woman broke up with him, he thought that was the reason. He eventually married and adopted. But he was ALWAYS very sensitive of his inability and thought it decreased his value as a man. One of his girlfriends fretted for six months about breaking up with him because she knew that was how he would see it and it wasn't so. She just thought they weren't a good match.

I think if he had read that one comment of yours he would have been extremely hurt.

Men and women deserve to be treated with sensitivity, love and respect, unless their actions should prove they deserve otherwise.

[JasonC]

It is a fair point as far as it goes, but those defending feminist pieties are not conservative women, they are feminists. They may not know how deep it is run into them or be conscious of the fact, but anybody who reacts to attacks on feminist ideology as attacks on themselves, self-identifies with feminism and is not a conservative but an enemy ideologue.

[John O]

You know there is a responsibility to remain respectable even after marriage. There's more in the vows besides 'till death do us part'.

Of course. But that first quantity of respect is due to the position. After that it's up to the husband (wife) to earn more respect or lose what he has. But he is due some simply for being the husband.

To rest on one's laurels is a great way to kill a marriage. Fortunately it's male nature to strive to be worthy of respect (as I posted earlier.

[JasonC]

I discussed the original article, then I told someone who said offenses against feminist pieties gave her a headache and made her want to go have fun, to go do so but stay away from me, and then disagreed with the sentiment that US men were wrong to write off US women as infected with feminism and to prefer other women. Which was another indirect defense of feminism. Nowhere did I attack sentiments critical of feminism, or bow to a single one of its pieties. So your charge is simply innaccurate as a factual matter.

[NYpeanut]

Poor judgement on their part. I was married to a jerk once, but I was 19 and believed all his crap (I was a democrat, too, just to show you how screwed up I was). I've never dated a jerk since I booted him out, just nice guys. People wise up. Also, maybe you like the wrong women.

[TAdams8591]

Yes, the office of the presidency does deserve respect. The problem with Clinton was he did not respect himself or his own office and he showed that over time. And I did not respect him. He did quite a lot to lose our respect.

[JasonC]

Anyone who self identifies on feminist pieties and defends modern feminism is a feminist ideologue and deserves everything they get. It is not complicated. All anybody is noticing is that I don't play halfway-house games by bowing to half the feminist pieties or pretend there is anything moral about a scrap of it. Apparently that is still novel to some people. Well then they need a wake up, and to be told again none of us needs to give an inch to feminist claptrap nor do any of us need a single feminist.

[John O]

Men and women deserve to be treated with sensitivity, love and respect, unless their actions should prove they deserve otherwise

I agree. Sometimes the engineer in me gets in the way of relating my ideas with proper concern for how they will be recieved I guess.

[TAdams8591]

His thinking and his behaviour were irrational and I was not interested in being converted into a feminist or living like one.

[JasonC]

I deny it, I claim misogynist is a feminist hate-word like Eurocentrism or Orientalism and has no content beyond "hated by feminists for denouncing feminism". As such it is a badge of honor and anybody should be proud to self identify as a misogynist.