Your attitude is why the family infrastructure is falling apart in this country. Suck it up and be responsible for your choices.
Posted on 01/10/2006 1:49:22 AM PST by nickcarraway
SUSHI DAS discovers what men think about feminism.
'FEMINISM has turned women into selfish, spoiled, spiteful, powerless victims," shrieked the email. "Men are talking, can't you hear it? Marriage rates are down, birthrates are down, men are using women for their pleasure and then leaving them."
If it was only one of a handful of emails I received, I might not have given it much thought. But there were many more. "I do not think it's men or boys that need reforming. I think women are the main instigators of hate against one half of the population," wrote another man.
Then there was this: "I have healthy relationships with women and always have protected sex to avoid entrapment … why should I risk losing everything I own and having my children taken away from me?"
And this: "The modern guy is not looking for the 'services' past generations did, they often just want a nice person to share their life with, rather than someone who is going to be climbing corporate ladders, getting pregnant when she chooses and then assuming complete control of a child's life. That is not to say they are not supportive of women's careers and goals."
The emails were a response to a challenge I posed to men on this page a couple of weeks ago. Specifically, I asked them to engage in debates relating to "feminist issues" and show they understood that equality, women's rights, the work/life imbalance, the declining birthrate, sexual politics and relationships generally are important to everybody, not just women.
I received, a tsunami of emails. Many were considered arguments. A significant number were the bitter outpourings of men hurt by women. Some elucidated the frustrations of men who couldn't find Ms Right. Sadly, many were simply vitriolic or abusive.
In the hundreds of emails, anger appeared to be the underlying emotion because the writers believed the pendulum had swung too far in favour of women. There were some common threads: men were angry that women's needs took priority over theirs; they felt men constituted the majority of the unemployed, the homeless, the victims of industrial accidents and suicides, that men's health received less funding than women's, and that boys' education was poor. In relationships, they felt some women were "not very nice to men" and were often too selfish to consider their needs. These concerns are real,
but how many can really be blamed on feminism?
Essentially, men raised three broad concerns over why they did not engage in the debate on feminist issues. First, they were scared of being howled down by aggressive feminists who dismissed their views. Second, they felt they were victims too, but women didn't listen to them. Third, they were confused about what women really wanted and what constituted appropriate behaviour.
On the first issue, I agree, some women are dismissive of men's views simply because they are men. Men who speak out, wrote one man, are "smashed upon the rocks of indignation" and this made it "a very, very scary debate to engage with". Another said: "Opting out of an argument in which we cannot hope to be allowed an equal voice let alone a fair outcome is a perfectly rational response."
My response? Get over it. If you're a man and you have an opinion, speak out. Put your case. It will stand or fall on its merit. Stop being scared. There are plenty of women willing to listen. And if you get howled down, get up and say it again. That's how women got their voices heard in the 1970s.
On the issue of men as victims, some argued women too are violent, that men have few rights on abortion, that female teachers get off more lightly when they sexually abuse male students, that men are vilified as pedophiles, that affirmative action is discriminatory, that women frequently win the custody battle. Clearly these concerns require attention. Perhaps it is governments that are not listening to men, rather than women.
Finally, some men were unsure of their role in society. This is complex, and women must recognise this. But men should also let common decency be their guide to appropriate behaviour. Being a decent human being shouldn't be that hard.
Equality is a prerequisite for development. When the shouting from our respective corners is over, perhaps resentment from both sides will melt.
Many emails I received were a cry from the heart from men. But it's not just about women listening to their words, it's about men taking action to improve their own lives. This means speaking out, whatever the consequences — engaging in the debate on equality or feminism or whatever it is called these days.
With that in mind, I'll leave the last words to a man: "Damned if we do, damned if we don't. We need to speak though. We do not want our daughters growing up stunted by arguments or situations that could have been campaigned away. Equally, our sons require education. But how do we do this with integrity? That's the challenge for all involved."
Thank you
It wasn't until this last year that I realize just how much of a necessity sending cards is. Not so much to the sender, but to the receiver. The occasional cards helped me through a very rough time. So, seeing how valuable they are to me, I've taken up the slack and sent the Christmas, birthday and anniversary cards out.
(Attendance at the funeral parlor is also very important. I know it can be a drag but having your support at the showing is so vital to the people who are bereaved. I encourage everyone to visit at the funeral home if someone you know has lost someone they love.)
Your attitude is why the family infrastructure is falling apart in this country. Suck it up and be responsible for your choices.
Not my nieces that are in their 20s. The older one is a nice Catholic girl who doesn't even drink.
Objectivity is always filtered through one's ego. And with the sharp elbows being thrown on these type of threads, some egos get bruised. Others were bruised (and have not yet healed) prior to their joining the discussion.
I think that it's best just to let the fellas vent once in a while without taking umbrage or calling in the coven. After all, we have so few venues where it's allowable to get something off our chest.
Expressing and letting go of some toxic memories is a good way to put them behind oneself.
And just to satisfy my curiosity, why does it offend you that some men look offshore for a spouse?
I think I'll stay single and not have to worry about all of that.
Besides, I did most of that crap anyway when I wasn't single.
It's a political forum, not a private men's club to bitch about women. I'll continue to calls them as I sees them, best I can and I bet occasionally I'll be wrong too. :~D
I said about as much about the foreign bride thing on this thread as I care to. My reasons are upthread somewhere.
Actually, I know an extremely gorgeous, 26-year-old model who is setting out to do just that. She has looked around and noticed that second wives usually have it a lot better than first wives. She's seen a lot of young guys unhappily married to their first wives because they're still immature and/or busy establishing themselves in their careers. After getting divorced from their first wives, the guys grow up a little and marry second young wives and start second families. By this time, the guy is more established in his career, more prosperous, more grown up, a better father, and appreciative of having a young, pretty wife. The second wife benefits from all of this and gets to stay at home with the kids or whatever she wants to do. Meanwhile, the first wife struggles as a single mom, working at a job and raising the kids from the first marriage all by herself. This model has seen all that and has decided she wants to be a second wife! She's probably not the only one, either. It's like that movie, "First Wives Club." The first wife gets dumped, the second wife has it better. Not every time, of course, but often.
Is she a Christian and where in the US is she? (You can't blame a guy for just asking :^) )
"She has looked around and noticed that second wives usually have it a lot better than first wives."
When Joan Rivers was still doing standup, she used to ask to look at the rings of the women in the front rows. She would diagnose from the size of the stone whether the woman was a First Wife or Second (or more) Wife, and I don't think she was ever wrong. ;-D
As a fellow livestock owner, you must be aware of the necessity to occasionally bring in new genes to invigorate a stagnant herd.
I have great admiration for the entrepreneurial and self reliant spirit that new immigrants bring to this country. Far too many Americans of all races, social classes and political orientations have become fat, lazy and absorbed in the entitlement mentality.
New blood may not correct all of our ills, but it will bring a positive outlook to individual family units simply due to the appreciation felt for opportunities afforded to those who live in this country which are unavailable elsewhere.
Sometimes it requires a pair of foreign eyes to help us see how good we all have it.
Freebirds' 2¢
Heh... yeah - OK. I've still said about as much about the foreign bride thing on this thread as I care to.
Goodness John.... who cares where she is. Moving's easy.
See you on the next one then.
: )
Losers is a poor choice of words and shows your bias.
The world shrinks because of technology the options for the American man have increased. How many times does need to hear about a friend or coworker who had his children and house taken away from him by the woman he thought was his best friend. How many guys does he know who are slapped with bogus protective orders?
If a man wants to have a stable family with a woman who will take care of him and value the family more than the dollar, then looking in a place where he can find such a woman only makes sense. I simply don't date unless I intend to use a woman for sex. American women, in general, aren't worth the time and effort to build a relationship with. Even spending $50.00 on dinner and drinks on an American woman is a waste of money.
As the father of three little boys who's mother took them from their home and moved them into their mother's boyfriend's apartment I speak from experience.
Little more difficult than that. My daughter lost her mommy. Her entire support network is here, Mamaw and Papaw (that's hoosier speak for grandparents) aunt and uncle and cousins, all her friends, church family etc. As well as mommy's skin and bones (which mommy's really not using anymore so we buried it). I can't rip that all away from her too so anyone interested will have to move here.
"I simply don't date unless I intend to use a woman for sex. American women, in general, aren't worth the time and effort to build a relationship with. Even spending $50.00 on dinner and drinks on an American woman is a waste of money."
Between your attitude and your somewhat outmoded theory that $50 can cover dinner and drinks for two, I'm guessin' you haven't been out for a good long time. There's probably a calculation factor in there as well based on how many tattoos both you and the female in question possess, as well as how many teeth (between you). ;-D
John, I sympathise, I really do. But you are giving a much too serious answer to a post that was supposed to be rather light. With two horses, a couple dogs and a lot of associated frap, it wouldn't have been easy for me to move either when I met my husband online and 1500 miles away. But we met anyway.... Turns out, he could move.
Point is, moving's easy. :~D
Don't worry. That was just an attempt to inject some humor into a thread that had gotten far too contentious, before I went to bed. I always do two things before turning out the light: read the Bible, and laugh about something. I got stuck reading this thread and tried to give myself a giggle before bed.
If I wore boxers, I might even iron them once, just to see what it's like. Ironing breifs might be pointless, but I might give it a try.
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